Is the "Old vs New" debate unique to boxing?

[billeau2]

conditioning watershed? really?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V3UOexMhUoM

So Elroy, in this fight we have a guy, a good fighter, not great, but lets look at his horrendous conditioning shall we?

because presumably with the Shillstone revolution this guy would do what exactly? the guy along with laMotta probably throws more punches average than if you took 3 fighters post Shillstone, in the same weight class...at least! he moves more as well.

So tell me? what was the great conditioning revolution? Remember shillstone was about stamina...So don't give me any bs about feather fisted fighters... So again tell me how fighters pre shillstone did not have stamina?

See I can show you how, for example, Tunney used technical details garnered from Corbett to defeat Dempsey...principles that were becoming useful in boxing as gloves, and distance changed...

you cannot do the same because it is frankly bs australian nutbag.

[Ray Corso]

Wlad is supposed to be a well conditioned athlete/boxer!
He throws the least amount of punches per round than any other heavyweight champ I've ever seen.
The amount of discussion on physical conditioning is a joke on this thread.
when you reach and elite level in your career the game becomes a mental
endeavor. You just saw Wlad unable to "pull the trigger" and that has nothing to do with his conditioning or advanced age.
He had a mental lapse and was concerned about getting hit so he chose not to engage. When he finally changed his mind in the last rounds he was
effective.
Fury took him off balance for a few rounds and Wlad questioned his ability to chase and capitalize. I could see it on his face during rounds and sitting in his corner. Doubt creeps in and the focus and purpose is questioned! Done!

Ask any experience athlete in any sport and they'll reference mental toughness and focus over physical preparedness!

The emphasis on lateral movement that appeared in the 1976 Olympics was
influenced by Ezzard Charles to Ali! Their ability to stay on the outside and be first when engagements happen along with staying clear of scoring was adapted by Pat Nappi the head coach of that team and that era of USA Boxing.
It was easier to implement over the course of 3 rds 3 mins than a 10 rounder but there has been great movers that utilized ring area and clock management. Pep was a master at it and its been a part of boxers methodology for 85 years.

Nothing of relevance is new in the sport, a training technique that works for one may not work for another body. Not everyone will be mentally strong there are men who can break down another's focus.
Pressing your will on another man is a huge part of boxing, as long as you have the goods!

Ray

[Elroy1]

On the one hand we have Bill trying first to reference a specific example against the general trend which I didn't even bother to look at btw. And secondly to try anecdotally refute a plain and obvious and rigorously testable truth..

And then we have Ray, ever the more "cautious" these days knowing how futile and dangerous such blatant nut baggery is around old Uncle Elroy trying to duck and hide and side step the issue altogether by playing down physical conditioning altogether in favour of the more intangible "mental toughness" and area in which he knows he is on safer ground for debate, not because there is any truth to the matter (there certainly isn't in general terms) but that because it isn't straight forward provable like modern athletes physical conditioning the counter arguments are necessarily weaker.

Bravo fellas.

Run nut bags... RUN for cover! Throw your bibles at me over your shoulder

[billeau2]

On the one hand we have Bill trying first to reference a specific example against the general trend which I didn't even bother to look at btw. And secondly to try anecdotally refute a plain and obvious and rigorously testable truth..

And then we have Ray, ever the more "cautious" these days knowing how futile and dangerous such blatant nut baggery is around old Uncle Elroy trying to duck and hide and side step the issue altogether by playing down physical conditioning altogether in favour of the more intangible "mental toughness" and area in which he knows he is on safer ground for debate, not because there is any truth to the matter (there certainly isn't in general terms) but that because it isn't straight forward provable like modern athletes physical conditioning the counter arguments are necessarily weaker.

Bravo fellas.

Run nut bags... RUN for cover! Throw your bibles at me over your shoulder

There is only one nut sack here and it is an australian nut sack named Elroid. Ray started his post addressing physical conditioning, as I did BtW when responding to your australian nut baggery. Then like soooo many knowledgable posters have done, Ray gave you specific examples, none of which you could give...you tried and the best you could come up with is a trainer working with Spinks, whoopy do!! Such changes!! Did you know michael spinks brother leone revolutionized dentistry BTW? Thats right...looking in Leone's mouth one could see his glotus but thats another story for another time.

Sorry nutbag, your bs will get exposed everytime you try to print it.

[Anthony342]

There is only one nut sack here and it is an australian nut sack named Elroid. Ray started his post addressing physical conditioning, as I did BtW when responding to your australian nut baggery. Then like soooo many knowledgable posters have done, Ray gave you specific examples, none of which you could give...you tried and the best you could come up with is a trainer working with Spinks, whoopy do!! Such changes!! Did you know michael spinks brother leone revolutionized dentistry BTW? Thats right...looking in Leone's mouth one could see his glotus but thats another story for another time.

Sorry nutbag, your bs will get exposed everytime you try to print it.

Don't feed the trolls.

[Elroy1]

Don't feed the trolls.

There ARE trolls here...

Except that would be him, you, that moron Ray and all of your other friends...

That is of course, unless most of you are the same person different accounts..

It's really beginning to LOOK that way now isn't it?

You'se are only fooling yourselves.

[Elroy1]

Alright Bill, here's a post Shilstone example for you, among many many other examples...

Evander Holyfield!!!

Evander was once at an interview which was held in an aura of nutbaggery, kind of like the 1933 Reichstag election was the powers that be wrote him a script and required that he read it. It spoke about the greatness of Ali and how things were much worse today (Evanders day) and he or nobody could hold a candle to him and the greats of his era.

But Evander decided to buck the script, and for good reason too. Instead he spoke about how the modern boxer does not have to fight as often anymore but because of the minute attention and scientific application to every aspect of his training that todays boxers were doubly effective. He went on to tell that he could of beaten ALL that came before him, and I for one believe him!!

Evander is one of the boys of the game who helped combat nut-baggery even at these early stages at the dawn of truly professional boxing.

Don't even TRY to tell me that his success was not due to his revolutionary mode of training and definitely don't try to tell me that his HW career was absolutely dependant on it!!

How what the hell do you think the general public are gonna believe??

YOUR nut bag argument with more holes than a North Korean submarine? OR my water tight argument and very prominent example?

Keep walker kid.. You are in way WAY over your depth here pal!

[joeandthebums]

Alright Bill, here's a post Shilstone example for you, among many many other examples...

Evander Holyfield!!!

Evander was once at an interview which was held in an aura of nutbaggery, kind of like the 1933 Reichstag election was the powers that be wrote him a script and required that he read it. It spoke about the greatness of Ali and how things were much worse today (Evanders day) and he or nobody could hold a candle to him and the greats of his era.

But Evander decided to buck the script, and for good reason too. Instead he spoke about how the modern boxer does not have to fight as often anymore but because of the minute attention and scientific application to every aspect of his training that todays boxers were doubly effective. He went on to tell that he could of beaten ALL that came before him, and I for one believe him!!

This is a repeat of...

Evander Holyfield was once asked to do an interview and was REQUIRED to say how the fighters of the past were so much better than his time. He agreed. But when it came time, he had a change of heart and decided to ignore the script and told them what he REALLY thought.

He told them instead, how because of modern training and management that they now did not have to fight so often but were doubly effective. He told of how important strength was in boxing and how those who disagreed with him were those who did not have to fight against it! And he told how he was better than anything that came before him!

If you produce information on Holyfield being "required" to make a statement please do, to my knowledge this statement was published as part of an interview prior to the first Lewis fight.

"Look at the statistics. I've achieved more than the fighters before me. People say you can't compare the eras but you can. Improvement is there to be seen.

All my life I've wanted to be the best ever. It is a matter of opinion but gradually I've been rising in public opinion. One recent poll moved me up to third behind Ali and Louis - and, at 36, I believe I get better with every fight.

I admire the old fighters and I've built my skills on the people before me. And I've added more to it.

The training now is much more advanced. The psychological and physical preparations are now sciences which include everything from nutrition to muscular development.

Today's fighters are fitter, faster, stronger and hit harder. We don't have to fight so often because the schedule is geared to television money. So the training is more detailed and dedicated, yet we suffer less wear and tear while gathering our experience."

[Elroy1]

This is a repeat of...



If you produce information on Holyfield being "required" to make a statement please do, to my knowledge this statement was published as part of an interview prior to the first Lewis fight.

"Look at the statistics. I've achieved more than the fighters before me. People say you can't compare the eras but you can. Improvement is there to be seen.

All my life I've wanted to be the best ever. It is a matter of opinion but gradually I've been rising in public opinion. One recent poll moved me up to third behind Ali and Louis - and, at 36, I believe I get better with every fight.

I admire the old fighters and I've built my skills on the people before me. And I've added more to it.

The training now is much more advanced. The psychological and physical preparations are now sciences which include everything from nutrition to muscular development.

Today's fighters are fitter, faster, stronger and hit harder. We don't have to fight so often because the schedule is geared to television money. So the training is more detailed and dedicated, yet we suffer less wear and tear while gathering our experience."

Joe you already KNOW that Holyfield was required to make that statement VERY differently in favour of the nut bag elite who scripted him.

I know you already know because you already know the backstories of most everything...

Now it would be very naive of me to believe that you would make yourself privy to all PRO-nut bag information and not just HAPPEN to discover what might be coined the "REALITY" side of the story as well from time to time right??

It would take me to re-research the issue again of course but you could already no doubt provide the full transcript that serves to show I am correct here if you so desired to I have little doubt and save me the trouble.

[Suckmedry]

I wish there was a way we could alert Elroy's loved ones. The guy is sick.