Mike Tyson & Muhammad Ali!

[billeau2]

In all honesty, I can understand your dislike of posters romanticizing the past too often and neglecting the modern greats, but nobody is ever going to take you seriously when you make these ridiculous over the top statements about fighters from the past as if they were complete tomato cans.

I think Tyson beats Ali as well, but the idea that he does so easily is just nonsense. He struggled a fair amount with an incredibly poor imitation of Ali in Quick Tillis.

Try to be more objective and genuine, and maybe your points would be taken seriously.

Someone should tell Elroid that prime Tyson weighed about what Ali weighed, which was maybe ten pounds over Frazier... Hardly a different heavyweight range... i would tell him but he doesn't seem to like me.

Tyson on his best days, particularly for the first part of a fight would be a handful for any ATG heavyweight imo. So would Dempsey for the same reasons, namely fleet feet and great punching. There are some great films examining how Tyson would throw, and as the guy is reacting to the blow Tyson pivots around to the proper distance to catch him flush for the next shot. This is in contrast to punchers like Joe Louis who would set up always at the proper distance and catch one on the end of the punches after setting. Again...Tyson learned this presumably from Dempsey because jack did the same movement... its very subtle with Dempsey but one can watch him slide and pivot into the proper range as he is throwing.

What I found all these great punchers had in common was a way to finish a man by keeping him in range at all times.

[taken250]

Mike Tyson would win the first match. The second match would highly competive matchup that any guy wins. Ali would win third match up.

The idea that Ali would rope a dope mike tyson on the ropes seems crazy to me because mike tyson could dig! If anything he tires Iron Mike by tieing him up and pulling down on his head

[Scott9945]

I think Tyson gets his chances early with Ali!
He can use his pressure but it better not be in a 24'squared ring, he'll never get there!
Even in a 22' he will have his problems with Ali setting distance and remaining fluid, remember Tyson is a arms length fighter NOT an inside worked as Frazier was! Frazier bobbed & weaved his way close Tyson slips side to side and likes to punch off those moves. Inside Tyson usually clutched and held. Mike preferred to **** when his opponent was on the ropes and might get Ali there if he can close distance. If Ali stops to exchange early he could get caught but not easily because of his unorthodox habit of leaning back Tyson could take the body. He would need to reach as Frazier did to land on the jaw or wait till Ali slows down late in the fight.
I could see this as a Frazier vs Ali type of fight with the exceptions of Tyson throwing more shots early but not working inside once he's there. Ali using the jab to score but not as frequently as other opponents but staying away until he feels Tyson begins to reach and/or tire!
Ali is the best thinker at heavyweight ever and his methodology comes into play best with dangerous opponents (Liston, Frazier & Foreman)
This would be a hell of a 10 rounder with Tyson having a shot at a decs. that's right he might!!! A 15 rounder has Ali's methods winning the late rounds and enough mid rounds to take it. No one stops Ali even when he was
out of shape and past his best. I don't think Ali steps into Tyson to try and get him out even late. One hell of a fight, should be held in NYC. Yankee St.

I'll take Ali by decs. something like 7-5 (12) or 9-6 (15) 10 rounds might be even, Tyson could produce a hell of a work rate over ten if he could think that way.
I liked both at younger ages than most, I feel that they were optimizing their talents then. Tyson prior to prison and Ali before being banned!

Merry Xmas

Good analysis.

[Elroy1]

Looked really good in the late rounds against Buster Douglas and Holyfield 1.

Yes because the version of Buster and Holyfield that Tyson fought were comparable to bloody Ali right?

You moron!

Tyson faced several opponents as bad as Ali in the first half of his career and he beat every one of them. THOSE are the facts.

And really, do you think his losses to Holy and Buster were due to his poor "late round performance?"

GTFOOH!

[Scott9945]

nnobody

Yes because the version of Buster and Holyfield that Tyson fought were comparable to bloody Ali right?

You moron!

Tyson faced several opponents as bad as Ali in the first half of his career and he beat every one of them. THOSE are the facts.

And really, do you think his losses to Holy and Buster were due to his poor "late round performance?"

GTFOOH!

Too bad that nobody bought you a dictionary for Christmas so you can possibly understand what a "fact" actually is.

But the ceiling on your learning potential is so low it still may not have helped. And of course you are a trolling machine that can't be stopped until you are finally banned.

[Elroy1]

Some nut bag comments worth addressing..

Mike Tyson and Muhammad Ali were the same size

The quality of "size" between Tyson and Ali was astoundingly different. Tyson eclipses Ali in all departments of chin, strength, power everything size related and still maintains much greater speed, mobility and stamina as well.

A visual shows this better..

Muhammad Ali
http://blog.constitutioncenter.org/w...1165-2-402.jpg

Mike Tyson
http://www.zastavki.com/pictures/ori...on_053508_.jpg

And the body composition is obviously vastly different too.

Tyson struggled with James Tillis, a poor mans Ali

James Tillis was imo a "comparable" boxer to Ali whole career and a superior boxer to Ali on the night he fought Tyson.

It was documented that Tillis fought the very best fight of his whole career and it is obvious by looking at boxrec that this was a green Tyson who had barely fought more rounds of boxing than fights he had had at that stage of his career.

Tillis was beaten pretty soundly the main credit being that he didn't get knocked out but as one commentator put it he was tagged often enough.

The Tillis fight in fact at the time was used as a PROOF of Tyson's stamina which of course it is..

Most importantly, this flimsy Tillis excuse is vastly overshadowed by the unquestionable Frazier excuse..

Ali was busted up by a complete bum- how do the nut bags explain THAT???

Mike Tyson fought an opponent comparable to Joe Frazier himself, his son.. And he wasted him in about 19 seconds if I remember correctly!

[BattlingNelson]

Elroy your trolling is to much. Why don't you make your own thread where you can explain why size is the main thing? And do make it specific, because I do not understand what the **** you are talking about.

Some nut bag comments worth addressing..



The quality of "size" between Tyson and Ali was astoundingly different. Tyson eclipses Ali in all departments of chin, strength, power everything size related and still maintains much greater speed, mobility and stamina as well.

A visual shows this better..

Muhammad Ali
http://blog.constitutioncenter.org/w...1165-2-402.jpg

Mike Tyson
http://www.zastavki.com/pictures/ori...on_053508_.jpg

So Tyson has a better chin, has greater strenght, power, speed etc. And as evidence for these preposterous claims elroy provides ..... Drumroll.....

2 ****ing pictures!!!

That's sceince man. Muahahahahaha.

And the body composition is obviously vastly different too.

Yeah. Ali had longer reach. Elroy that is what is known as a FACT!

James Tillis was imo a "comparable" boxer to Ali whole career and a superior boxer to Ali on the night he fought Tyson.

It was documented that Tillis fought the very best fight of his whole career and it is obvious by looking at boxrec that this was a green Tyson who had barely fought more rounds of boxing than fights he had had at that stage of his career.

Tillis was beaten pretty soundly the main credit being that he didn't get knocked out but as one commentator put it he was tagged often enough.

The Tillis fight in fact at the time was used as a PROOF of Tyson's stamina which of course it is..

Most importantly, this flimsy Tillis excuse is vastly overshadowed by the unquestionable Frazier excuse..

Ali was busted up by a complete bum- how do the nut bags explain THAT???

Mike Tyson fought an opponent comparable to Joe Frazier himself, his son.. And he wasted him in about 19 seconds if I remember correctly!

Tillis is comparable to Ali! What does elroy use to back up this again rather preposterous claim? NOTHING.

And Marvis Frazier is an oponent comparable to Joe Frazier. Wtf? In appearance maybe. A picture would reveal that. And since pictures are elroy's main exhibit, then of course he is correct. In his own world that is. A world where everything is simple and can be judged by appearance.

Elroy you get an F. That is only because your command of english is decent.

Now quit smoking crack while posting on boxingscene.

[Anthony342]

Well you're a mod Bat, so if his trolling is too much like you say, you have the power to do something about that.

[Anthony342]

Yes because the version of Buster and Holyfield that Tyson fought were comparable to bloody Ali right?

You moron!

Tyson faced several opponents as bad as Ali in the first half of his career and he beat every one of them. THOSE are the facts.

And really, do you think his losses to Holy and Buster were due to his poor "late round performance?"

GTFOOH!

I answered a direct question you put to the forum "2. Where is the performance of Tyson that suggests he had poor late rounds stamina?"

Answer. In his fights vs. Buster Douglas and his first fight with Holyfield. Tyson was still considered prime by many when he fought Douglas and was still competitive when he finally got a shot at Holyfield. Nowhere in that question did you ask for someone to compare his opponents to Ali, just to show where he had poor stamina in the late rounds. Even in his wins that went the distance his punch output is not as high and not as hard and Tyson only has one late stoppage in his career.

And yes, those losses were due to low late round stamina and due to getting his ass kicked. He wasn't gassed, but he was clearly tired.

And you're the moron for thinking Ali was bad, that no boxer is considered professional by you until 1980, oh yeah and tried to compare other great heavyweights to Sam f%$&ing Peter.

You claim that another forum you post on is a lot more sensible than this one (translation: They're as dumb as you and agree with your psychotic agenda). If that's the case, then save yourself the frustration and go there, if you think we're such nutbags.

[BattlingNelson]

Well you're a mod Bat, so if his trolling is too much like you say, you have the power to do something about that.

I am a moderator. Not an admin. I cannot ban people if thats what you are suggesting.