Ali vs Wilt

[Weltschmerz]

This thread

[sonnyboyx2]

There is no perfect fighter for Cus near Tyson but he could take anyone strengths and improve them ,only a fool wouldn't know that ,just like had he been Alis trainer would surely have made him better .....thats why Ali went to Cus for advice on Foreman and Cus prepared him for Frazier with similar sparring partners .....if you are telling me under Damato a fast athletic guy who was physically stronger than Ali wouldn't potentially be a top guy compared to who he was fighting late 60's you are wrong .

What happened to all Cus advice to Patterson, in the two Liston fights?

[juggernaut666]

What happened to all Cus advice to Patterson, in the two Liston fights?

A glass jaw of a buck one ninety!


I forgot ,in your world a 25 pound weight advantage also is meaningless !

[sonnyboyx2]

A glass jaw of a buck one ninety!


I forgot ,in your world a 25 pound weight advantage also is meaningless !

A Glass Jaw ???? Glass jaw is what Lennox Lewis has

Patterson fought punchers his whole career.

Henry Cooper (Henry's Hammer)
Jerry Quarry (twice)
George Chuvalo (Fight of the Year)
Oscar Bonavena
Muhammad Ali (twice)
Jimmy Ellis
Eddie Machen
Ingemar Johansson (Ingo's Bingo)
Archie Moore (record holder for most knock outs)

Absolutely.. a 25-40lb or more weight advantage is meaningless. i can list a hundred or more boxing fights, were a fighter weighing 25lbs or vastly more than that, is easily beaten by the smaller, more skilled fighter. Weight is a hindrance, a negative. Not a positive.

Lennox Lewis was 16lbs (one stone) heavier than mediocre journeyman Hasim Rahman, yet Rahman poleaxed Lewis. Lewis could not have beaten the count, if the referee counted to 50.

Vitali Klitschko 245lbs Chris Byrd 210lbs
Ray Mercer 246lbs Marion Wilson 208lbs
Frans Botha 250lbs Evander Holyfield 220lbs
Michael Moorer 250lbs Eliseo Castillo 215lbs
Wladimir Klitschko 245lbs Lamon Brewster 225lbs
Bonecrusher Smith 234lbs Marvis Frazier 206lbs
Frank Bruno 247lbs Mike Tyson 220lbs

The list is endless.

The perfect height and weight for a Heavyweight boxer is:
6''2' and one half inch
216lbs

[juggernaut666]

A Glass Jaw ???? Glass jaw is what Lennox Lewis has

Patterson fought punchers his whole career.

Henry Cooper (Henry's Hammer)
Jerry Quarry (twice)
George Chuvalo (Fight of the Year)
Oscar Bonavena
Muhammad Ali (twice)
Jimmy Ellis
Eddie Machen
Ingemar Johansson (Ingo's Bingo)
Archie Moore (record holder for most knock outs)

Absolutely.. a 25-40lb or more weight advantage is meaningless. i can list a hundred or more boxing fights, were a fighter weighing 25lbs or vastly more than that, is easily beaten by the smaller, more skilled fighter. Weight is a hindrance, a negative. Not a positive.

Lennox Lewis was 16lbs (one stone) heavier than mediocre journeyman Hasim Rahman, yet Rahman poleaxed Lewis. Lewis could not have beaten the count, if the referee counted to 50.

Vitali Klitschko 245lbs Chris Byrd 210lbs
Ray Mercer 246lbs Marion Wilson 208lbs
Frans Botha 250lbs Evander Holyfield 220lbs
Michael Moorer 250lbs Eliseo Castillo 215lbs
Wladimir Klitschko 245lbs Lamon Brewster 225lbs
Bonecrusher Smith 234lbs Marvis Frazier 206lbs
Frank Bruno 247lbs Mike Tyson 220lbs

The list is endless.

The perfect height and weight for a Heavyweight boxer is:
6''2' and one half inch
216lbs

A glass jaw is someone who has been put the deck 20 times in which he still holds that record ...a sturdy jaw is someone whos able to absorb punches from the likes of Holyfield and Tyson and Vitali,,,,i would like to see Patterson take a vicious left hook from Holyfield or right hand hand from Tyson and here you are using nearly 240 Rahman to 190 Patterson who got plastered twice to huge punches from Liston who was 215....now go do your home work and come back again you clown............

[Elroy1]

A glass jaw is someone who has been put the deck 20 times in which he still holds that record ...a sturdy jaw is someone whos able to absorb punches from the likes of Holyfield and Tyson and Vitali,,,,i would like to see Patterson take a vicious left hook from Holyfield or right hand hand from Tyson and here you are using nearly 240 Rahman to 190 Patterson who got plastered twice to huge punches from Liston who was 215....now go do your home work and come back again you clown............

I gotta go to work but have to say I've never seen such nut baggery as this guy, he's some sort of freak!

PAtterson... the IRON MAN.... Ahahhah

[juggernaut666]

I gotta go to work but have to say I've never seen such nut baggery as this guy, he's some sort of freak!

PAtterson... the IRON MAN.... Ahahhah

Yes he questions Lewis chin against even super hitters like Mercer who you would have thought needed a bat that night to drop Lewis, yet props up a 190 pounder not even qualified as a Lewis sparing partner.....speaking of which here is the REAL score of the Mercer/Lewis fight
1 Lewis
2 Mercer
3 Lewis
4 Lewis
5 Lewis
6 Mercer
7 Lewis
8 Lewis
9 Lewis
10 Lewis


People are simply not watching the fights and or listening to commentary,or are u.s biased..its crap like part of this article below which why I have to call people newbs.....




Lewis escapes with decision over Mercer He stages desperate rally, then crowd boos verdict


May 11, 1996|By Alan Goldstein | Alan Goldstein,SUN STAFF


NEW YORK -- Lennox Lewis has talked bravely of fighting and beating Mike Tyson if and when promoter Don King clears the way for a heavyweight championship showdown this year.

But last night at Madison Square Garden, Lewis did little to make Tyson fearful while winning a controversial majority 10-round decision over Ray Mercer, a 7-1 underdog.

Lewis looked like just the latest British title pretender in barely surviving this brutal encounter with Mercer, who never has been considered a heavyweight of the first order.








The crowd of 17,041, which had chanted "U-S-A!" in support of Mercer, howled in disapproval when judges George Colon (96-94) and Luis Rivera (96-95) favored Lewis, the former World Boxing Council champion. The third official, Melvina Lathan, called it a 95-95 draw.

Lewis, who lost his WBC title to Tyson sparring mate Oliver McCall in 1994, was forced to stage a desperate rally in the last three rounds. Mercer (23-4-1) dominated the first half of the fight, forcing the action and rocking the Briton repeatedly with clubbing right hands.

Lewis' highly respected trainer, Emanuel Steward, had boasted before the fight that his latest protege was the best of today's heavyweights, and capable of being the best of all time.

Said Lewis: "My message to Tyson is that I'm ready any time. He hasn't fought anyone since he's come back. I fought Ray Mercer, a true warrior."

Lewis, however, never came close to flooring the dogged Mercer, a 34-year-old warhorse who has never been stopped in 27 pro bouts.

It was Lewis who appeared on the verge of being knocked down several times when his reach and jab failed to slow Mercer's relentless attack.

But Lewis (29-1, 24 KOs), his face badly swollen, put up a brave front for the international media.

"I felt that I did enough to win," he said. "Mercer has a real tough chin. I hit him with some hellacious shots, but he kept coming. This was a positive step toward Tyson. I'm not taking any easy fights."

Lewis' promoter, Dan Duva, said he was willing to arrange a July match if Tyson is willing.

Mercer, the 1988 Olympic champion who briefly reigned as World Boxing Organization champion, did his best to hide his disappointment.

"I did the best I could," he said. "I took his best shots. I may have given away three rounds, but all the punches I landed were hard. Me and Tyson fight the same way. The public would like that. Let's get it on!"

But Mercer will have to wait in line. A New Jersey court decree bars Tyson from defending his WBC crown against anyone but Lewis.

Still, it seems highly improbable that Tyson and Lewis will get together in 1996. King, supported by Showtime, the cable pay-per-view corporation, has vowed to fight the court order that would give Lewis a chance to earn 25 percent or more of an estimated $80 million fight with Tyson



Absolutly nothing conntraversial about the boxing clinic Lewis put on this man...the myth that is handed down that Lewis was out jabbed is as dumb as it gets,one has to woinder how much are they drinking or listening to what is passed on?


Maybe its they simply look at the compu box statistics and don't have the ability to see picked off/missed or clean landing punching...?


Its the same type of bad fan base that insists Spinks won the Holmes rematch clearly when it wasn't even close.

I challenge anyone to show me where this happened in the fight....

'It was Lewis who appeared on the verge of being knocked down several times when his reach and jab failed to slow Mercer's relentless attack"

[Anthony342]

Oh, I know about that. Some of the original content is on the Enter The Dragon DVD release. I meant the name of the Kareem documentary on HBO.

And the original full fight scenes at the end are way better than what they ended up using, especially with Kareem's sunglasses getting knocked off and being sensitive to the light coming into the room. There was even a Game of Death 2, using closeups of Lee until his character is killed off camera, ending in a reverse underground tower. The highlights are an electrified floor and a kung fu lion in that one.

[Anthony342]

A size advantage only matters if the skill level is equal or if the bigger fighter has more skill and has good stamina. Most of Holyfield's opponents were bigger, but he had heart, toughness and a good chin. In prime years, I only remember him going down in the first fight with Bowe and that was a shot that hit the back of his head and kind of pushed him down and in the 3rd Bowe fight, which was due more to exhaustion from Hep C. Any times after that, he was way past prime. Marciano and Tyson were smaller heavyweight as well and won a lot. Heart and hard work can make up for physical shortcomings often.

On the other end, Lewis knew how to use his length to beat guys, as have the Klitschko Bros. or lanky Hearns and his long arms and hard right hand. Even Foreman, not the most skilled, knew how to use his size and strength to effectively muscle opponents around and his heavy hands as well.

[juggernaut666]

A size advantage only matters if the skill level is equal or if the bigger fighter has more skill and has good stamina. Most of Holyfield's opponents were bigger, but he had heart, toughness and a good chin. In prime years, I only remember him going down in the first fight with Bowe and that was a shot that hit the back of his head and kind of pushed him down and in the 3rd Bowe fight, which was due more to exhaustion from Hep C. Any times after that, he was way past prime. Marciano and Tyson were smaller heavyweight as well and won a lot. Heart and hard work can make up for physical shortcomings often.

On the other end, Lewis knew how to use his length to beat guys, as have the Klitschko Bros. or lanky Hearns and his long arms and hard right hand. Even Foreman, not the most skilled, knew how to use his size and strength to effectively muscle opponents around and his heavy hands as well.

yes but nobody can really tell me Mercer remotely won that fight or came close to beating Lewis and neither did Holyfeld which was actually an easier fight for Lewis.

DURING his extensive career recording punch statistics from ringside, there have been occasions when the judges’ verdicts have completely gone against the data gathered by Canobbio. Here, the CompuBox owner lists some of the most baffling decisions he has encountered.

“There have been a few dandies. Probably the most puzzling was the first fight between Holyfield and Lewis. Lennox outlanded Evander by more than three to one, yet the fight was scored a draw.



As for Tyson and Marciano....well Tyson was 215/220 and had speed.....Marciano was not very fast and weighted only 185 so theres a big difference not just in athletic ability but style as well.