Lloyd Marshall and Bert Lytell Overrated

[McGoorty]

I have looked into these guys careers from the fabled "Murderers Row" and some claim these guys were all ATG's but Lytell and Marshall clearly are not, their resumes look reasonable if you only take wins into account but of course we have to count the losses and they lost so so many and often against novices or nobodies and to some ATG's.... Marshall was knocked out 11 times, nowhere near good enough for any ATG, his defence was just not good enough although he had good speed and plenty of power punching ability. The less said about Lytell the better.

[IronDanHamza]

How is Bert Lytell overrated when barely anyone has heard of him and he isn't even in the HOF?

Beat the likes of Burley, Williams, Basora, Oakland Billy Smith x2, Cocoa Kid, Henry Hall

Many ringside observers had him beating Jake Lamotta.

Close loss to Harold Johnson.

Doesn't sound too bad to me.

[McGoorty]

How is Bert Lytell overrated when barely anyone has heard of him and he isn't even in the HOF?

Beat the likes of Burley, Williams, Basora, Oakland Billy Smith x2, Cocoa Kid, Henry Hall

Many ringside observers had him beating Jake Lamotta.

Close loss to Harold Johnson.

Doesn't sound too bad to me.

Well I have seen Lytell listed as high as top 20 MW of all time so that's what I am going on, had some good wins but many horrible losses which far outweigh his wins, same goes for Marshall.

[IronDanHamza]

Well I have seen Lytell listed as high as top 20 MW of all time so that's what I am going on, had some good wins but many horrible losses which far outweigh his wins, same goes for Marshall.

He could be. He has wins strong enough to make an argument.

Especially if you were to include his controversial loss to Lamotta.

[McGoorty]

Well I have seen Lytell listed as high as top 20 MW of all time so that's what I am going on, had some good wins but many horrible losses which far outweigh his wins, same goes for Marshall.

Marshall did have some real ability, I don't deny that but his chin was not good and his defence left a lot to be desired, his big asset was his big left hook as seen in these two videos, especially in the first round with Mills, he sure could hit hard.

[McGoorty]

He could be. He has wins strong enough to make an argument.

Especially if you were to include his controversial loss to Lamotta.

Mate you don't seem to even consider losses, I will go into it all after I have a sleep, but I will demonstrate his weaknesses outweigh his wins. I can also name 30 mw's at least with better credentials and just better,, we are talking about an incredible division with incredible depth.

[Humean]

Both were good contenders in their day but not great fighters. In a time period where a fighter will fight many times a year then a good world level contender is going to pick up some good names on their win column but that doesn't mean they are great.

[McGoorty]

Mate you don't seem to even consider losses, I will go into it all after I have a sleep, but I will demonstrate his weaknesses outweigh his wins. I can also name 30 mw's at least with better credentials and just better,, we are talking about an incredible division with incredible depth.

Maybe a better way to do this is to compare him to a guy who is far less known than Lytell, his name is Walter Woods a very underrated boxer whose record is superior in most ways you could think of. Woods was excellent. Plus Woods beat Lytell twice and beat Ken Overlin, this makes him at least as good as Fred Hennebury another underrated MW but Woods beat Fred as well as Ralph DeJohn, his losses mostly to the likes of LaMotta and Krieger

[McGoorty]

Both were good contenders in their day but not great fighters. In a time period where a fighter will fight many times a year then a good world level contender is going to pick up some good names on their win column but that doesn't mean they are great.

Oh they were contenders for sure I don't deny that, but as you said not great, greatness does not have 23 losses with 11 by knockout, not ever.

[IronDanHamza]

Oh they were contenders for sure I don't deny that, but as you said not great, greatness does not have 23 losses with 11 by knockout, not ever.

I'm pretty sure no one have ever considered Lloyd Marshall or Bert Lytell ATG fighters.