jack Johnson can does anyone catch his weight?

[billeau2]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iybw67dh5V4

In this clip look at johnson....he looks a little less lithe, a little less spry, catch his weight because it goes to show an important point in the debate about size, weight and efficiency.

Whats your take on this? Think about it for a second.... Catch his weight and then, lets hear it!

[The Old LefHook]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iybw67dh5V4

In this clip look at johnson....he looks a little less lithe, a little less spry, catch his weight because it goes to show an important point in the debate about size, weight and efficiency.

Whats your take on this? Think about it for a second.... Catch his weight and then, lets hear it!

Are you serious? This clip of a whale with a roll of blubber has no bearing whatsoever on the referred to discussion. Extra mass is obviously meant to mean well conditioned muscle, not extra blubber. The narrator says Johnson has not trained for five months. You want to interject this into the conversation? Now, obviously, sir, that is the wrong kind of extra mass for a boxer to carry into the ring.

[ShoulderRoll]

245 pounds after a layoff, way over his championship form of around 200 pounds. He definitely looks sluggish.

Lots of clinching in fights back then. I noticed that not just in this clip but in many others from that era.

[Scott9945]

245 pounds after a layoff, way over his championship form of around 200 pounds. He definitely looks sluggish.

Lots of clinching in fights back then. I noticed that not just in this clip but in many others from that era.

You mean that Wladmir Klitschko didn't invent excessive clinching?

[JimEarl]

You mean that Wladmir Klitschko didn't invent excessive clinching?

No. It was a byproduct of an era of 20, 25 round and unlimited round fights.

[billeau2]

Does it strike anyone as interesting that johnson, can come in at this weight, fight a decent fight....wouldn't that mean that if Johnson did not train for a while and wanted to weigh on average what a modern heavyweight does....you see where I am going with this?

What if we took all the lard asses that are the modern men and assumed they would be better at 190?

Would it make people feel better if Dempsey came in at 235? to fight if he were somehow resurected? Or...is the opposite true?

Johnson could fight at this weight...Yes?

Chris aerola at 190 would probably do him wonders...Yes?

[billeau2]

No. It was a byproduct of an era of 20, 25 round and unlimited round fights.

When those guys clinched they were fighting...watch Johnson handling flyn with his arms...Flyn can't even head butt him.

[billeau2]

And lets just remember that Flyn was no slouch, he knocked out a pretty good young heavy known as the Manassa Mauler! he fought the TarBaby to a draw, one won and lost one.... just saying

[billeau2]

Are you serious? This clip of a whale with a roll of blubber has no bearing whatsoever on the referred to discussion. Extra mass is obviously meant to mean well conditioned muscle, not extra blubber. The narrator says Johnson has not trained for five months. You want to interject this into the conversation? Now, obviously, sir, that is the wrong kind of extra mass for a boxer to carry into the ring.

My mistake...Chris Aereola is a specimen, and When JT was taking scalps, he was a specimen....And all these guys we see are muscled machines,,,,Povatkin, Too big Briggs, the postman Vlad fought....

Your a smart guy missing the point. If Johnson got dropped from the dead tomorrow weighing in at a weight where he would be a terror, all the jerks like Elroy and you know who would parrot and lament how Johnson "was a mere cruiser at best." YET if he weighed in at 245 which HE COULD DO, he would be a less effective heavy weight contender.

[The Old LefHook]

My mistake...Chris Aereola is a specimen, and When JT was taking scalps, he was a specimen....And all these guys we see are muscled machines,,,,Povatkin, Too big Briggs, the postman Vlad fought....

Your a smart guy missing the point. If Johnson got dropped from the dead tomorrow weighing in at a weight where he would be a terror, all the jerks like Elroy and you know who would parrot and lament how Johnson "was a mere cruiser at best." YET if he weighed in at 245 which HE COULD DO, he would be a less effective heavy weight contender.

Johnson did not have the nickname the Galveston Giant for nothing. Though he was only between 6'0" and 6'1", he was large on his frame and large for the times. Flynn was a lightheavyweight, and Langford was his bane and nemesis. He managed one thin newspaper decsion over Sam which was not even unaimous, and every other time was well beaten or KO'd. He caught Dempsey right before he hooked up with Kearns, when Dempsey was still wandering around starving half the time and poorly trained.

Little Flynn was trying desperately to get out of his beating by headbutting. I expect an out of shape quality heavyweight to handle a lightheavyweight under almost all circumstances. For those who doubt the efficacy of well-conditioned extra pounds up to the limit where the benefit drops off, gaze at the career of Bob Foster, a big lightheavyweight who was a devastating puncher for that weight and who was KO'd everytime he fought a heavyweight.

Johnson was adept at fighting effectively through a large range of weights. He had already whipped Flynn before, so knew exactly what to expect. One reason he took him light was because he knew he could.

I would put Jack's mature prime weight at 208-212. The 225 he weighed for Willard was quite reasonable for his age and lifestyle, but he was beyond his best. Maybe his trainers today would feel he needed to add 15 lbs. to that prime 210. If they did it right, maybe it would not hurt, but he was already as hard as black marble. Beyond 15 additional pounds I would expect his performance to slide. 212 lbs. of pitbull-conditioned muscle can KO any man, in my view, but go to 225 if you must.

All added mass must be muscle mass to be effective. But if the effectiveness of even increased muscle mass drops off after a point, then certainly "mere" weight does, faster. Adding 20 more pounds of cottage cheese on his arms and waist would not help Johnson in any fight conceivable to me. He should not want to fight even Valuev beyond 225. I think that is your point. After a few fights from the 212 pound Johnson who dropped out of the sky, the jerks who were recently crying he was too small and would be killed by todays "big" heavies, would all change to raving fans.