March Madness + Boxing =

[Yogi]

and if i do, then that's my opinion.

[K-DOGG]

I've been absent for some time now; my wife and I just had a beautiful baby girl. Her name is Genesis (Genna for short). I decided to return in lieu of the crazy upset-fest that was the men's division of March Madness. Since this is a boxing forum, however, I will keep my eye on the prize.

The following is a 32-fighter tournament in the heavyweight division. 64 seemed extremely daunting, or else I would have completed this in it's entirety. Feel free to grumble about some of the standings, or just have fun with it! The fighters were chosen based on some personal research, and from that of the other good boxing scholars on this very website and their historical points of view. Keep in mind that the fighters were given their seatings within each bracket, and does not represent my personal opinions of their actual ranking. Fill in the brackets, and post your results if you wish. One may get really ambitious and indicate the round in which the fight ends. Enjoy!

A few things to be aware of: All fighters are allegedly in their "primes" for this tournament. No partying the night before, all of the proper training is there, no layoffs (or excuses); and above all, STYLE COUNTS! Even the magnificent #1 fighters can run into a difficult style matchup, no matter how fast or powerful he may have been. They are all human, so please, do a little research and fill in the blanks accordingly.

On a side note: We are all very aware that butterfly1964 will pick Ali vs. Liston in the final, so it's okay if he doesn't even bother to post.


****EDIT**** I had a nice spreadsheet with all of the brackets lined up, but I just realized that I can't post attachments on here. Yarr... Well, here's the watered down version.

1. Muhammad Ali vs. 8. Archie Moore
4. Jersey Joe Walcott vs. 5. Max Schmeling
3. Jack Johnson vs. 6. Joe Jeanette
2. Jack Dempsey vs. 7. James Corbett

1. Rocky Marciano vs. 8. Cleveland Williams
4. Evander Holyfield vs. 5. Ken Norton
3. Joe Frazier vs. 6. Max Baer
2. Mike Tyson vs. 7. George Godfrey

1. Joe Louis vs. 8. Jimmy Young
4. Floyd Patterson vs. 5. Rid**** Bowe
3. Lennox Lewis vs. 6. Jerry Quarry
2. George Foreman vs. 7. Elmer Ray

1. Larry Holmes vs. 8. Harry Wills
4. Ezzard Charles vs. 5. Gene Tunney
3. Jim Jeffries vs. 6. Jack Sharkey
2. Sonny Liston vs. 7. Peter Jackson

Again...yarr..

Congratulatons on the new addition!

Now...the picks:

Ali vs Moore............Archie was slick as hell and not easily stopped; but Muhammad's speed, I think, would be the difference.....Ali by TKO in 12

Walcott vs Schmeling....damn this one's tough; but I'd have to give the edge to Schmeling, who was a helluva boxer in his own right and would beat Walcott in his physical prime, when he wasn't that impressive as well as in his "prime" when he was in his late 30's; but JJ would still offer up enough to make it an intriguing chess match. Schmeling by SD

Johnson vs Jeanette....Damn, 'nother tough un; but I'd have to go with Johnson. True Joe wasn't in his prime when he and Johnson squred off like 5 or 6 times and only twice for official decisions, of which one was a draw and the other a W 15 by Johnson. However, I just think Johnson was a better boxer and would have beaten Jeanette in his prime in a very close decision....Johnson by close UD.

Dempsey vs Corbett...great style match-up; but Jack was a better boxer than given credit for...better than Sullivan and Jeffries, so this fight's close...also, Corbett is very underated; but I still have to go with Dempsey....more than likely by late round stoppage, I'm guessing 13 or 14......Dempsey by KO in 13.

Marciano vs Williams.....well, Cleveland's chin wasn't the best against the harder punchers he faced while Marciano's made of pure granite. Cleveland would start off looking to pound the smaller Marciano into the canvas; but a few shots later would want take a more cautious approach...to no avail.......Marciano by KO in 5.

Holyfield vs Norton.....DAMN! What a fight this would have been. Norton had trouble with punchers more than anything, of which Evander was not one, so this would look similar to Dokes-Holyfield or Holmes-Norton in terms of action. However, Holy did drop Bowe, Tyson, and got Dokes on his way, which indicates he could hurt you and his chin was far better than Norton's so...Got to go with Commander Vander.....Holyfield by KO in 8.

Frazier vs Baer.....Not a good match up for Joe. This resembles another fight Joe had with a big, tall, ko artist; but I see it going a little longer than the Foreman fight given Max's tendency to clown where George had no sense of humor.......Baer by KO in 5.

Tyson vs Godfrey.....REALLY NOT a Good Match for Mike. Godfrey was a big, strong, rough heavyweight with a good chin...not good for Mike; and trained by Jack Blackburn...REALLY NOT GOOD. The first rounds might look like Forman-Lyle; but I doubt it, George knew how to tie up and rough house when he needed. I've got to go with Godfrey.......Godfrey by KO in 9.

Louis vs Young.....Young's style might have been effective against Ali and Foreman...and even gave Norton fits; but not Louis. Joe was in a whole 'nother class of fighter. Jimmy might give him trouble early on; but as Joe said, "....you can't hide.".........Louis by KO in 11.

Patterson vs Bowe.....Interesting style match-up; but, ultimately, I think Floyd's size disadvantage would do him in in this one. Both men would be trading licks and neither had a great chin; but Bowe hit harder........Bowe by KO in 6.

Lewis vs Quarry.....once again, the tell tale sign in this fight is size...that and Quarry busted up relatively easy and Lewis's punches could cut as well as hurt you. It would be interesting for a few rounds; but, ultimately, I've got to go with Lewis....Lewis by TKO in 7.

Foreman vs Ray.....Not good for Ray. Not only is he at a tremendous size disadvantage; but Elmer didn't take a punch as good as he might........Foreman by KO in 3.

Holmes vs Willis.....from all I've read about Wills, he was not a superb boxer, just a strong slugger with modest ability. Anybody who can't box is in trouble with Holmes. Larry's jab would eat him alive. Now, that's not to say Holmes would run all over him; but I do believe The Easton Assassin" would outbox the "Black Panther"........Holmes by UD.

Charles vs Tunney.....Now THIS is an interesting match. Both were smaller heavyweights, both were excellent boxers, both also fought good competition; but I'd give the edge to Charles in the competition department...as well as the power and speed department. Skillwise, it's a toss-up.........Charles by very close UD.

Jeffries vs Sharkey.....Sharkey and Jeffries are both underrated; but I feel Jeff has more in the mental toughness department. The Boston Gobb was a very moody sort whereas The Boiler Maker was sturdy as a tree by the river. It's easy to see Sharkey outboxing the big bear; but it's not so easy when one considers the kind of pressure and hard shots Jeff would be putting on him continuously. If Jack folded to distraction and a low blow and to Carnera, I can't see him out-toughing Big Jeff........Jeffries by KO in 10.

Liston vs Jackson....Hmmm. Well, these two are about the same size; but Jackson fought in a vastly different era. Supposedly a slick boxer/puncher; and had to be tough to go 61 rounds with a prime Corbett; but there's the rubb. Corbett didn't punch nearly as hard as Liston, I'll wager. So hard to say on this one for fear of prejudice against another time; but ultimately that's what it comes down to. Slick Boxeer in Corbett and Sullivan's time doesn't necessarily equal slick boxer in Liston and Ali's time. Have to go with the powerful jab of Liston, which would have been a force in any era.......Liston by TKO in 7. (I do admit I am less sure of this pick than ANY of the others, being not that familiar with Jackson)

[butterfly1964]

what's wrong with that? it's not like liston's a bum or something.

[Yogi]

what's wrong with that? it's not like liston's a bum or something.

[butterfly1964]

stop doing this !

[Yogi]

stop doing this !

[butterfly1964]

you think you're funny, don't you?

[Yogi]

Tyson vs Godfrey.....REALLY NOT a Good Match for Mike. Godfrey was a big, strong, rough heavyweight with a good chin...not good for Mike; and trained by Jack Blackburn...REALLY NOT GOOD. The first rounds might look like Forman-Lyle; but I doubt it, George knew how to tie up and rough house when he needed. I've got to go with Godfrey.......Godfrey by KO in 9.

See Butterfly...now K-DOGG here has a clue as to who George Godfrey was & what problems he'd present to Tyson, and even though I don't quite see the fight playing out like he does, to me his outcome is MUCH more likely than the ones you put forth (to me this is a "short exchange then clinch", "short exchange then clinch", "short exchange then clinch"...rinse & repeat type of fight that goes the full distance).

Godfrey is a big, tough, tremendously strong (especially in the clinches), and intimidating heavyweight (a gentle giant outside the ring, though), who can also "rough" it up whenever the mood suited him...But he wasn't only that, as he also possessed good footwork, pretty quick hands for a big guy, very good defense coming inside on the attack (looks to clinch quickly after throwing a couple of bombs), pretty good upperbody reflexes, decent outside skills behind the jab, and had exceptional power in his punches (best punch probably being a pretty quick & powerful lead left hook...right uppercut may be his second best punch).

To me, George Godfrey is almost a cross between Liston & Foreman in style/attributes, only a little bit bigger and slightly more defensive minded.

[Brassangel]

1. Muhammad Ali vs. 8. Archie Moore
4. Jersey Joe Walcott vs. 5. Max Schmeling
3. Jack Johnson vs. 6. Joe Jeanette
2. Jack Dempsey vs. 7. James Corbett

1. Rocky Marciano vs. 8. Cleveland Williams
4. Evander Holyfield vs. 5. Ken Norton
3. Joe Frazier vs. 6. Max Baer
2. Mike Tyson vs. 7. George Godfrey

1. Joe Louis vs. 8. Jimmy Young
4. Floyd Patterson vs. 5. Rid**** Bowe
3. Lennox Lewis vs. 6. Jerry Quarry
2. George Foreman vs. 7. Elmer Ray

1. Larry Holmes vs. 8. Harry Wills
4. Ezzard Charles vs. 5. Gene Tunney
3. Jim Jeffries vs. 6. Jack Sharkey
2. Sonny Liston vs. 7. Peter Jackson

WINNERS

1. Ali vs. 5. Schmeling
3. Johnson vs. 2. Dempsey

1. Marciano vs. 4. Holyfield
6. Baer vs. 2. Tyson

1. Louis vs. 5. Bowe
3. Lewis vs. 2. Foreman

1. Holmes vs. 4. Charles
3. Jeffries vs. 2. Liston

KEY NOTES
I had to make a similar upset prediction to K-DOGG's and go with Baer over Frazier. Smokin' Joe was a warrior, but if there was one weakness, it was a long reach, and bone crunching power. I picked Tyson over Godfrey, as I imagined this fight going similar to the Tyson vs. Biggs matchup. Godfrey was big, defensive, and had quick hand speed, but a prime Mike could score enough to impress the judges and steal a decision. I think that Holyfield could be a sleeper, as he is incredibly tough, has great counter-punching ability, as well as patience and heart.

Coming soon...more analysis and round 2 predictions.

Oh yeah, and

[Brassangel]

1. Ali vs. 5. Schmeling
3. Johnson vs. 2. Dempsey

1. Marciano vs. 4. Holyfield
6. Baer vs. 2. Tyson

1. Louis vs. 5. Bowe
3. Lewis vs. 2. Foreman

1. Holmes vs. 4. Charles
3. Jeffries vs. 2. Liston


WINNERS

1. Ali vs. 2. Dempsey
4. Holyfield vs. 2. Tyson
1. Louis vs. 2. Foreman
1. Holmes vs. 2. Liston

KEY NOTES

A lot of 1's vs. 2's. While that's the ideal way we would all like the tournament(s) to turn out, upsets are bound to happen. I actually think that Baer may have been favored over Tyson, simply given his size. Then again, Tyson had minimal respect for people, especially opponents who clowned around. Holyfield was able to fend off Marciano's attack and steal the points war. Most people will probably disagree with this decision, but to each his/her own. Louis vs. Bowe would be an interesting contest, but I believe that Joe's superior boxing skills and tactical mindset would give him the edge. Lewis vs. Foreman is a match I'm still not sold on yet. On various polls, 80% of the people on this website selected Foreman to KO Lewis, but Lewis was a larger man...much larger. He also posessed more boxing skills and decent defensive abilities. Even so, G. Foe was pretty frieking destructive. Holmes can outbox almost anyone, hence my decision over Charles. It would be a solid competition, but Larry would probably gain the advantage in the mid to late rounds. Jeffries and Liston were both fine physical specimens, but I believe that Sonny's reach and work behind the jab (during his prime) would give him the edge. As a side note, people really need to study Jeffries and stop basing his greatness, or lack thereof, on his fight with Johnson.

Elite 8, coming up!