Prime Holyfield Top 3 All Time

[- Ram Raid -]

I wont question where you've ranked him specifically. What I would question is whether we can rank him as a legitimately great heavyweight at all knowing that his stint amongst the big men was fueled by steroids and human growth hormone?

[sonnyboyx2]

I think that is way to high Sonny. Now without checking boxrec (lol), I think he's the one with the most losses of championship fights of all time.

There's also that Evan Fields scandal. How should that detract from his accomplishments? A little? A lot? Not at all?

Holyfield was without a doubt one of the best technicians in HW boxing history and a great fighter. But top 3? Top 2 is a given, but does he have a better resume than Foreman, Holmes?

I think his resume is far greater than Foreman or Holmes have Bat.. Holyfield's losses are very much debatable. I feel his losses are like the losses on Ezzard Charles resume. Holyfield like Charles, would fight anyone no matter their style or their greatness. Holyfield wanted to pitch himself against the best, to prove to himself that he was the best. When a fighter does that, he faces almost every style of fighter. Chris Byrd, Larry Donald, James Toney, Nikolay Valuev... would Foreman & Holmes defeat all these guys?... The elusiveness of Byrd, the fleet-footedness of Donald, the skills, infighting of Toney, the size of Valuev..There was the heart problem in the Rid**** Bowe fight. The southpaw style of Moorer and IMO the robbery in the Lewis rematch..So he had to incur defeats in his career. Ray Robinson & Muhammad Ali had defeats.

I am with you on the steroids scandal and i believe he used them. But i also believe Tyson, Foreman, Lewis, Klitschko Brothers, Moorer, Toney, Jones Jr. Holmes all used them. So if that is a black mark against Holyfield, then it has to be against those guys.. Tyson never ever took drug tests, he refused and paid the $50,000 fine.

IMO Holyfield on his best night would be a very difficult opponent for any heavyweight in history to beat and it would not surprise me if he won..

Just my opinion Bat, i started the thread to read others opinions on him.

[stephenmc]

Ya id rank evander high...but not that high,not all time anyway,maybe between specifec years

[sonnyboyx2]

Hard to put holyfield top3 unless you are biased to Holyfield. Lets be honest here,he lost to Bowe twice Moorer once and beat an overweight Douglas to get that title all the more he lost to Lewis twice...he was not the most dominant HW for a decade,Lewis was along with W Klitchko that is not refuttable,you can include Louis but then you have to look at his resume...If he had won over Holmes in more convincing manner I would have him ranked over him,but he didn't.Fighting a 43 year old holmes he should have been able to dominant more.Maybe im missing something since I haven't seen that fight in awhile?


If we are going on pure resumes I would put him over many fighters still.He fought tougher guys than Louis,Foreman,and Ali imop.Where do you rank him on ability?I would have him in around number 5 or 6 at his best in a top 10 list.

it actually pains me replying to your post, because you know nothing about the sport. You make ridiculous assumptions and are convinced in your own mind that they are factual and correct. When the truth is, that you are completely wrong!

I said Holyfield was the most dominant Heavyweight in the world for nearly a decade... you have replied with this ".he was not the most dominant HW for a decade,Lewis was ".....

Evander Holyfield won the undisputed Heavyweight Championship of the World 25/10/1990 from James Douglas. He defeanded that title against Foreman, Holmes Bert Cooper and lost it to Rid**** Bowe 13/11/1992 Holyfield regained the title (The man who beat the man) 06/11/1993.. Holyfield lost the title to Moorer 1994 regained it from Tyson in 1996 gained revenge by beating Moorer in 97 and Tyson in 97.. Holyfield then was fortunate to get a draw against Lennox Lewis in 99 then unfortunate to lose a decsion to Lewis in November 1999..... That is a Decade in my book!

Lennox Lewis - Took a belt (WBC) out of trash can and is awarded WBC Champion 14/01/1993 Lewis defends that belt against Tucker, Jackson, Bruno then gets poleaxed by journeyman Oliver McCall 24/09/1994.. Lewis then fights the likes of Lionel Butler, Justin Fortune, Morrison (HIV) Mercer before fighting McCall who is straight out of a drug rehab for a vacant WBC belt 07/02/1997 in a farcical bout... Mike Tyson was considered the real World Champion at this time. Holyfield knocks out Tyson... How can you possible claim Lennox to be the most "Dominant" champion of the 1990-1999 period?...
During the period of 1990-1999 we had Holmes (WBO) Foreman, Moorer, Tyson, Sanders, Bowe, Hide, Seldon all holding versions of the world title... Lennox Lewis fought none of them during that time... Holyfield fought 7 times against them.

Yet you claim Lewis to be the dominant Heavyweight of that period

[- Ram Raid -]

. . . I am with you on the steroids scandal and i believe he used them. But i also believe Tyson, Foreman, Lewis, Klitschko Brothers, Moorer, Toney, Jones Jr. Holmes all used them. So if that is a black mark against Holyfield, then it has to be against those guys.. Tyson never ever took drug tests, he refused and paid the $50,000 fine. . .

That answers my question. I've not seen anything myself that suggests that Tyson, Holmes, Lewis or Foreman were using though. You've been misinformed on the former. Tyson took plenty of drugs tests, though you are right that he failed to provide samples. He took a 3 month ban and a fine for failing to provide urine before his bout with Golota but he did take and fail a test after the fight when he tested positive for marijuana (I beleive he was fined $200,000).

He also notoriously had a fake penis fashioned that he'd fill with someone else's urine to provide samples with. Given that, my next statement may at first sound a little incongruous. I don't see any evidence of the man taking PEDs. He was a coke head and marijuana user so he had reason to hide his rampant recreational drug use. But, as far as steroids or HGH use, his body never dramatically altered and the performances weren't there that would suggest he was using.

[sonnyboyx2]

That answers my question. I've not seen anything myself that suggests that Tyson, Holmes, Lewis or Foreman were using though. You've been misinformed on the former. Tyson took plenty of drugs tests, though you are right that he failed to provide samples. He took a 3 month ban and a fine for failing to provide urine before his bout with Golota but he did take and fail a test after the fight when he tested positive for marijuana (I beleive he was fined $200,000).

He also notoriously had a fake penis fashioned that he'd fill with someone else's urine to provide samples with. Given that, my next statement may at first sound a little incongruous. I don't see any evidence of the man taking PEDs. He was a coke head and marijuana user so he had reason to hide his rampant recreational drug use. But, as far as steroids or HGH use, his body never dramatically altered and the performances weren't there that would suggest he was using.

Tyson could bench press 500lbs

[BKM-2010]

it actually pains me replying to your post, because you know nothing about the sport. You make ridiculous assumptions and are convinced in your own mind that they are factual and correct. When the truth is, that you are completely wrong!

I said Holyfield was the most dominant Heavyweight in the world for nearly a decade... you have replied with this ".he was not the most dominant HW for a decade,Lewis was ".....

Evander Holyfield won the undisputed Heavyweight Championship of the World 25/10/1990 from James Douglas. He defeanded that title against Foreman, Holmes Bert Cooper and lost it to Rid**** Bowe 13/11/1992 Holyfield regained the title (The man who beat the man) 06/11/1993.. Holyfield lost the title to Moorer 1994 regained it from Tyson in 1996 gained revenge by beating Moorer in 97 and Tyson in 97.. Holyfield then was fortunate to get a draw against Lennox Lewis in 99 then unfortunate to lose a decsion to Lewis in November 1999..... That is a Decade in my book!

Lennox Lewis - Took a belt (WBC) out of trash can and is awarded WBC Champion 14/01/1993 Lewis defends that belt against Tucker, Jackson, Bruno then gets poleaxed by journeyman Oliver McCall 24/09/1994.. Lewis then fights the likes of Lionel Butler, Justin Fortune, Morrison (HIV) Mercer before fighting McCall who is straight out of a drug rehab for a vacant WBC belt 07/02/1997 in a farcical bout... Mike Tyson was considered the real World Champion at this time. Holyfield knocks out Tyson... How can you possible claim Lennox to be the most "Dominant" champion of the 1990-1999 period?...
During the period of 1990-1999 we had Holmes (WBO) Foreman, Moorer, Tyson, Sanders, Bowe, Hide, Seldon all holding versions of the world title... Lennox Lewis fought none of them during that time... Holyfield fought 7 times against them.

Yet you claim Lewis to be the dominant Heavyweight of that period

Solid points there, I'd agree Evander is the top of the 90s HW's. But of the same era I still rank Lewis over him because he carried over to the 00s, his win over Vitali edges him over Evander & Foreman in the top 5 I believe. Pound for pound though I rank Evander over Lewis.

[- Ram Raid -]

Tyson could bench press 500lbs

Where did you get that information from? From a quick search I've only found spectulation on weight lifting forums that also state he was pressing 390+ pounds at the age of 14.

[sonnyboyx2]

Solid points there, I'd agree Evander is the top of the 90s HW's. But of the same era I still rank Lewis over him because he carried over to the 00s, his win over Vitali edges him over Evander & Foreman in the top 5 I believe. Pound for pound though I rank Evander over Lewis.

Lewis did carry over to the 00s but he had to be stripped of belts for refusing to fight the No1 contenders... it;s easy to claim, "Yeah, but he woulda easily beat them".. no No1 contender is an easy fight as Oliver McCall proved...Lewis only won the title November 1999 one month shy of the next decade and that win was very debatable.. Almost no-one thought of Lewis as a champion during the 1990s and his devastating KO loss to Rahman 22/04/2001 along with the McCall defeat rule out any dominance.

[young_robbed]

My list would go like this:

1. Ali
2. Louis
3. Holmes
4. Foreman
5. Lewis
6. Holyfield
7. Liston
8. Frazier
9. Tyson
10. Wlad/Bowe/Marciano (probably wlad if he keeps it up)

I rank based on accomplishments, H2H ability and consistency. Ali gets the nod in both categories over all, IMO.