Was Lennox using PEDs

[ukbox]

Obviously common sense skipped a generation .

Obviously

Let's see if I can share some common sense with you.

What seperates the great boxers from your average fighter is their skillset.
If it weren't for these skills then boxing would look like your typical street fight with windmill, bingo punches thrown & guys just standing there & taking the punch.
The toughest & most powerful fighter would always win.
Any average drip could take some PED's & suddenly become a world beater.
Common sense suggest that if it was this easy everyone would be doing it. Take some PED's become the next Ali & get some millions.
The skills that the top guys have are established through years of practice & experience

I'm sure this is a wind up

[The Old LefHook]

It's understandable that there are question marks surrounding sport in general following the exposure of doping.

I think what is being suggested while somewhat plausible is unlikely to have happened.

Boxing is a beautiful but brutal sport, it always has been.
PED's is pretty open ended but the name suggest they all enhance a fighters performance.
These enhancements wouldn't & couldn't have gone unnoticed in the sport if they were happening in the percentage being discussed.

Names mentioned are mostly HW so we're not talking about weight cutting.
IMO you'd have seen noticable changes in the game like Ben Johnson's sprint.

You are asleep. Don't let us wake you.

[ukbox]

You are asleep. Don't let us wake you.

What PED's were these guys using?
All the guys on the lists.

Strength, power, size, endurance?

No increase in fatalities, no increase in heart attacks or brain injuries. No increase in rage shown in the ring(discounting Tyson chewing an ear)

These guys are all taking mystery PED's that enhance their performance ?
Where's the enhancements?

We had an average fighter in the UK a few years back. He looked like somebody had drawn him in a comic book, clearly juiced & on all the PED's he could get. The guy was good at knocking out taxi drivers & fruit sellers. He came unstuck early on & later tested for all the stuff he'd been taking.
It's a shame he got caught as it seems from this thread that he didn't want to be the odd boxer left out. It doesn't explain how he got KTFO & wasn't a world champion. The guy had taken enough PED's to win the grand national & possibly unify all the belts that same night. The other guy must have taken more PED's or maybe they were just better PED's. Do M&S sell PED's?

Wake me up when Mulder & Scully get here

[joeandthebums]

These guys are all taking mystery PED's that enhance their performance ?
Where's the enhancements?

The enhancements are an increase in strength, speed and endurance.

The most significant benefit is the extra stamina and endurance gained which should give the doper a greater advantage the longer the contest lasts.

Whether a doper is able to overcome an opponent with a greater skillset depends on too many variables for a simple answer.

[juggernaut666]

The enhancements are an increase in strength, speed and endurance.

The most significant benefit is the extra stamina and endurance gained which should give the doper a greater advantage the longer the contest lasts.

Whether a doper is able to overcome an opponent with a greater skillset depends on too many variables for a simple answer.

You might as well talk to a wall or a rock...the elevator really isn't working with that kid!

[ukbox]

The enhancements are an increase in strength, speed and endurance.

The most significant benefit is the extra stamina and endurance gained which should give the doper a greater advantage the longer the contest lasts.

Whether a doper is able to overcome an opponent with a greater skillset depends on too many variables for a simple answer.

Now we're getting somewhere

The PED's obviously work. We only have to look at the effect on your average male body builder over the years. A natural guy can get a good build, the guy on the gear gets there quicker & easier.

With that in mind we must be talking about significant gains, if that's too much of a statement, then lets say noticable gains.

With these gains on men that already large & powerful you'd see changes. They'd become even more powerful & dangerous. The icrease in stamina would allow them to inflict damage on their opponent for longer, hitting them harder. Targets are already vulnerable/weak areas of the body.

We've also got humans getting bigger in general, average sizes shooting up. The average brain & heart size hasn't. The heart's the thing to go with PED users in bodybuilding/Wrestling. Large guys already putting their heart under pressure messing with gear.
You see changes in Wrestling, the amount of deaths over teh past 30 years has highlighted the problems.

In boxing you'd have seen similar changes.
Big, dangerous men, receiving significant boosts to their natural physical gifts would be extremely dangerous. They are using the gains to increase strength, power, speed & stamina...all attributes that are bad for their opponent's health.

The rounds have been reduced over the years, we've all see how Frazier, Foreman & Ali fought, the pace, the power.
Fighters are heavier today, generally they hit harder(look at weight divisions)

IMO you could not have had a minimum of 90% of top boxers using PEDS without there being an increase in fatalities.
Deaths either in the ring or outside. Increased trauma to the brain in fighters. The fights are already shorter these days, with these PED increases fighters would be doing each other in week. A common statement associated with PED is it allows fighters to walk through punches.
Put it all together & you'd have an increased health risk in the sport, an obvious one that would glare.

We know you can't put muscle on your chin, the same is true of your brain. There would be more damage to the brain if PED usage was as widespread as is being suggested.


You don't take PED's and become elite. They don't work wonders like the movie Captain America.
Larry The Cartoon Boxer proves this. He'd taken enough PED's to join Marvel.

[ukbox]

You might as well talk to a wall or a rock...the elevator really isn't working with that kid!

Look after the title champ

[juggernaut666]

Look after the title champ

Bigger guys in GENERAL take better opunches it has nothing to do with chin,obviouslty most big men will take better punches than smaller ones that's why they have weight classes that's common sense...even though you changed your view somewhat,you still don't really know what you are talking about a skilled fighter taking peds will become elite level no matter how much you want to twist things now...BTW steroids don't have to make you big,there are many types of peds,you are the one watching the cartoons and movies...you even mentioneds why there are no roid rages in the ring or more fatalities????Yea talk about whos watching to many movies?you even asked us where the enhancements are and now are trying to tell us where they are simply because everyone basically told you already?lol

[ukbox]

Bigger guys in GENERAL take better opunches it has nothing to do with chin,obviouslty most big men will take better punches than smaller ones that's why they have weight classes that's common sense...even though you changed your view somewhat,you still don't really know what you are talking about a skilled fighter taking peds will become elite level no matter how much you want to twist things now...BTW steroids don't have to make you big,there are many types of peds,you are the one watching the cartoons and movies...you even mentioneds why there are no roid rages in the ring or more fatalities????Yea talk about whos watching to many movies?you even asked us where the enhancements are and now are trying to tell us where they are simply because everyone basically told you already?lol

I haven't changed my view. I'm stating the changes you would expect to see with PED use & the outcome from said changes.

HW's are where the excitement is at...It's always been the same because they bring more knock outs, they always have. .

I'm not twisting anything, you've changed your stance from an average fighter becoming elite, to a skilled fighter becoming elite.
That has been my argument. You suggested the Captain America formula.
I said it takes decades to become elite. PED's don't enhance boxing skills. The difference is their skillset between elite & average, not a fitness issue.

I haven't read comics since I was a kid, it was a visual description of a UK pro boxer on PED's...Larry Olubamiwo, no world beater

I'm not saying PED's have to make you big, I was attempting to focus on what PED's we were discussing. It's a vague accusation to throw at fighters without proof. We weren't talking weight cutting as heavyweights were the bulk of fighters mentioned.

You can't see the link between what you suggest & possible outcomes?

These guys are(in your mind) taking PEDs to enhance themselves & hurt others(as a result of gains).
They're not taking PED's with the intention of meeting their rival in the local park for a bike race around the duck pond.

Boxing is brutal & dangerous enough, people do die. When you throw PED's into the sport the risk of death & injury would increase, changes would be noticable.

That you fail to grasp what I'm saying is comical.

I'll spell it out further for you, see if what I'm saying is clearer.

I don't like slinging crap at pro boxers as I'm a fan of the sport. I admire these guys for what they do & the entertainment they bring at the risk of serious injury.

If I was going to be su****ious of a fighter & there's been a few...nowhere near 90%.
Marquez knocking out Pac.

Here's a guy that was getting old, improving his size, power & speed. The changes were noticable. The results were noticable. He took a lot of punishment without going down & through it delivered a super punch. For a few minutes it looked like Pac was seriously hurt.

I can defend Marquez, he bulked clean for that fight instead of bulking dirty & drinking pee like he did for FM. He was extremely motivated, had sussed out Pac & felt it was now or never & gritted down.

Stick with the theory that he was on PED's...

It was noticable...He almost killed Pac.

Now put that scenario into the hands of HW's, the risk of damage increases with the force.
It's no good talking about bigger guys taking a punch better, we know that's a recipe for disaster when it comes to brain injuries. The danger punch in boxing is the 1 you don't see & can't defend.

If 90% of boxers were on PED's then it would be noticable similar to the Marquez fight.
The number of boxers limp on the canvas would increase & so would the risk of serious injury.

Why do you think the doctors looked so worried with Pac out cold?

[Scott9945]

The enhancements are an increase in strength, speed and endurance.

The most significant benefit is the extra stamina and endurance gained which should give the doper a greater advantage the longer the contest lasts.

Whether a doper is able to overcome an opponent with a greater skillset depends on too many variables for a simple answer.

Many fighters use illegal supplements to cut weight. It happens a lot.