Best win ever?

[greeh]

Yeah but how do you go about assessing that level of skill, surely that's key in judging the strength of a win?

But anyway Duran - Leonard
Leonard - Hagler
Mayweather - Mosley
Ali - Foreman
Frazier - Ali
Mayweather - Oscar
Lamotta - Robinson

What kind of sick joke is this?

[greeh]

I know I'm in the minority here but I'm not quite sold on Gavilan being regarded so highly.

But like you say, if Gavilan is considered a top 5 at 147lbs, then both performances by Robinson and the second in particular should be considered incredibly impressive.

One of those moments I would really enjoy seeing the footage of is Robinson in that fifteenth round when despite being way ahead on the cards slugged it out toe-to-toe with Gavilan in attempt to win by knockout.

Fair enough.

I would say it's at least arguable. Even if I necessarily wouldn't have him there myself, he would definitely sit comfortably inside the Top 10 without any doubt whatsoever. I just found it a bit odd since I've both read and heard several people over the years claiming him to be Top 5 material, so I guess I expected to hear at least someone mentioning it as a possible candidate.

[SlySlickSmooth]

Whichever the best win is, they're definitely duking it out with Duran-Leonard and Ali-Foreman.

[LacedUp]

It’s hard to argue against Duran-Leonard, especially with the footage at hand, but how about the second Robinson-Gavilan fight? Of course it lacks the added ****e from a smaller man that moves up and wins, but it's rare that two fighters considered by many as Top 5 material in an original division go up against each other, especially in a peak-for-peak showdown.

It’s quite Charles-Moore’esque in that regard, even if Archie are almost universally rated higher than Gavilan at their respective weight.


Harada-Jofre and Gomez-Zarate is two plausible options, but weight problems/possible sickness casts somewhat of a shadow over those victories and may reduce the gloss somewhat, especially in the latter. Gomez-Zarate might be deemed as too one-sided as well.

Give me Laguna-Ortiz as a dark horse type of choice. A former #1 rated bantam’ and feather’ beating one of the very best lightweights at his apex is sensational stuff.

I suppose LaMotta's win over Robinson could also count as perhaps the greatest ever. Especially considering that Robinson was something like 127-1-1 in his prime years.

[Welsh Jon]

Fritzie Zivic v Henry Armstrong

[Kay D]

Marquez knocking out Pacquiao was the best win of this era.

[LacedUp]

LaMotta had a 16¼lb weight advantage in that one.

Can you still see it as the greatest win ever?

Im not saying it is, but it's a candidate considering Robinson is by far and large the greatest fighter that ever lived. Also, Robinson rematched him and won something like 3 weeks later which tells you how much the weight difference meant. Not sure what the weight difference was for that fight but still.

Definitely a candidate.

[Welsh Jon]

Except for the last contest they were all close affairs due to the weight Robinson was spotting LaMotta.

I do rate it as a good win, but if you hold the advantage five times - by the law of averages you got to come good once.

Isn't Robinson beating LaMotta actually one of the greatest ever boxing wins? Considering LaMotta is one of the greatest middleweights ever and SRR gave away a big weight advantage in the early fights.

I know Robinson was a big favourite, even in their first encounter, but isn't that more because of just how good Sugar Ray was?

[LacedUp]

Except for the last contest they were all close affairs due to the weight Robinson was spotting LaMotta.

I do rate it as a good win, but if you hold the advantage five times - by the law of averages you got to come good once.

honestly, I can't see how the weight had that much to do with it. Robinson gave up weight in all their contests, but had considerable height and reach advantage.

yet Lamotta still outjabbed him to his victory over Ray. The only man to defeat him in his prime. I think that has to be counted as a great great win, despite the weight.

[LacedUp]

Not to sound like Elroy, but a 16 pounds weight advantage having not that much to do with it?

I haven't read that LaMotta out-jabbed Robinson and would be interested in where you came across that information.

Not exactly an equivalent, but would Golovkin beating Mayweather be a great great win despite weight advantage?

I rate it as a good win, yet don't think I could put anybody who has such an advantage going into a contest down as a great win.

Who when matching LaMotta and Jackie Wilson a few weeks prior actually violated their own rules because of the weight discrepancy, 16lbs - the reason for permitting the contest was because of the difficult in getting talent during the war days.

But that's how it is. I believe Robinson had been a welterweight and moved up to middleweight for money and certainly LaMotta fought him that many times for money reasons.

16 pounds is what it is. How much was floyd outweighed by Canelo? Maidana? Ortiz? Somewhere in that region I'd bet. Not really that much of a difference in my opinion.

Plus it's not like Lamotta was a bigger man than Robinson, he was considerably shorter, he was just more stocky. Such an advantage? Come on. Many people before and after have fought eacher other with greater weight differences. It's clearly a great win, it's just not as hyped as other fights because of the time they were fighting in.

And yes, I would count Golovkin winning over Mayweather as a great win if Mayweather subsequently beat him 4-5 times and became the best middleweight in the history of the sport.

They were both on a talkshow in the 70s discussing their fight and both agreed that LaMotta outjabbed Robinson - That's how I got the info. It's on youtube somewhere I believe.