Sonny Liston would dominate if he fought today!

[billeau2]

Pads have been around since the 1950's. They weren't used as trainers believed they had limited teaching use.

They were originally used to work on a boxers flaw when executing a specific punch. They would then go back to the heavy bag and continue their training.

"They have fighters punch the hand pads - pop, pop, pop - and they put on a show and make a lot of noise that's impressive to the crowd and the media guys. But it's just a show for the most part. Very little is actually being taught."

Emmanuel Steward

And here is a perfect example of an assertion with proof: The poster first gives a historical antecedent for his assertion, namely that boxers used the pads a certain way at a certain time. This alone....Just this part of the post allows me to google, research books, etc and find out about boxers beng trained and how different aids were used at different times.

On top of that is a statement quoted that gives a knowledgable source for saying the exact same thing as the poster thus rebutting a statement made to the contrary.

Now Elroy...If you were captain of the debating team and one guy made a statement about pads and gave no proof and the other guy gave two good sources supporting his point of view....who would you give points to?

[Scott9945]

Shock value? Pollution? Banning for having an opinion based on real evidence instead of heresay?

You know what Scott, don't worry about my words. Take a look at this short clip. And I mean REALLY look.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=abOiIjAk4Wo

I made the comparisons because Alvarez, Hagler and LaMotta were all strong guys with great chin and power for their classes.

Have you seen Hagler perform anything as sharp as this? Have you seen LaMotta capable of anything close to this?

This is mitts, I am aware, but mitts are a very modern tool which makes fighters much sharper. What evidence do you bring, except insults.

I was going to ignore you Leroy, but I was curious enough to watch that clip, and my response is...WTF was THAT? You seriously call that "real evidence"? LOL!

Anyone who knows spit about boxing knows that Hagler would have gone through Canelo like a hot knife through butter. He would have torn him to pieces, almost as bad as what Liston would do to that no talent marginal contender Chisora. How do I know? Because I've seen these guys fight many times and would bet my life that I am right. Just go back to NSB where they tolerate the lunatic fringe better than here.

[Daddy T]

Nice touch Ray.

For all your wisdom you've managed to explain away what can be seen clearly with 2 eyes in terms of specialties and poor video footage.

Your obviously emotional about your own times too, and quite frankly I think you are expected to defend your cause at all costs. Whether for financial gain or just status is uncertain.

You do realise, olden day footage is purposely "sped up" to make them look better right? Better check whether some of these rounds really go for the 2 or 3 minutes they are scheduled for

And these combinations, left, right, hook. Geez I've never seen THAT before!

And what's that? Followed up by hell a side-step and jab, or even MORE punches? Very technical stuff Ray. I was taught that **** in amateur!

But you say he did more of it anyway right? I know, these days there's a lot more 1-2 and out of there right?

Well, take a look at the bloody OPPONENTS!

How on Earth COULD Liston possibly have lost to a guy like ****ing Patterson if he tried! And this was a TOP opponent!

Ali's speed of hand and foot were special. That is and isn't true. The Ali of the 60's was very fast for a HW. Except Ali of the 60's was basically what we would today consider a CW!

And todays CW's are so fast and so fit they blow him out of the water.

The Ali of the 70's, the guy who was something that TODAY we would call a HW, his speed was good, but it was nothing SPECIAL! There are faster boxers than that Ali in many places. And quite often they all so back it up with either (a) defence, which Ali did not even know existed, or (b) a hard punch, which again, Ali never knew of!

Are there even mods in this section anymore? Why is this guy still allowed to post he's clearly just trolling.

[StarshipTrooper]

I don't care about this anymore, I'm done with goating and baiting I have never associated with azzholes in my life!
This was my business for much longer than this jack off has been alive.

DONE!! Ban this troll ***** and get it over with!

And now you understand why I stopped giving a **** about Boxing Scene. I've been dealing with jackasses like Elroy the Alt around here for seven years now and eventually you reach a point where you just can't be bothered with the terminal ******ity anymore. Life is too short to spend dealing with people who in any sane society would be shot to protect the gene pool.

Sad to see you're starting to reach that point too

[billeau2]

And now you understand why I stopped giving a **** about Boxing Scene. I've been dealing with jackasses like Elroy the Alt around here for seven years now and eventually you reach a point where you just can't be bothered with the terminal ******ity anymore. Life is too short to spend dealing with people who in any sane society would be shot to protect the gene pool.

Sad to see you're starting to reach that point too

Many years ago (time flies sheesh!) I put in real work for a martial arts website that had at its core, a great purpose. This purpose being to seek out and expose hyperbole in martial arts training and advertising. Well the problem with this website was, and this is quite an irony!.. the site set a really low bar for "being cool and part of the in crowd." This "expectation" simply was that a person go to one of the gatherings, and spar a bit.

What happened was, you had guys who had really trained, some of whom actually fought professionally, who had great things to say and share, had real contacts in the community, etc. BUT these guys were drowned out by a bunch of these members who would maybe get an intermediate rank in Judo or Gracie Ju Jitsu, and pronounce all things about the martial arts.

Well one of these in members who claimed experience in many arts put up a video which had an interesting effect: It kind of collectively produced an "hey the empror has no clothes!" effect, i.e. members with real legitimate experience had to say that despite this guy's conformity to the sites ethic...he was in effect doing the same misleading Bullsh1zzle (bullshido) that the site was supposed to root out.

For guys like Ray and Green, and many others, it has to get frustrating when people who really don't have a basis for a real opinion, are legitimized through red K green K, little tinket thingies, etc.

The thing is, exposing ****** opinions has to be part of the workings of a site because it is the only way to deal with ignorance. I know it gets frustrating for people!

So, the moral of the story? well...that site has seen many really quality martial artists come and go, but when this guy was exposed it was a constructive process. The same can be said for when ignoramuses here are exposed! KEEP POSTING GUYS

[BKM-2010]

Many years ago (time flies sheesh!) I put in real work for a martial arts website that had at its core, a great purpose. This purpose being to seek out and expose hyperbole in martial arts training and advertising. Well the problem with this website was, and this is quite an irony!.. the site set a really low bar for "being cool and part of the in crowd." This "expectation" simply was that a person go to one of the gatherings, and spar a bit.

What happened was, you had guys who had really trained, some of whom actually fought professionally, who had great things to say and share, had real contacts in the community, etc. BUT these guys were drowned out by a bunch of these members who would maybe get an intermediate rank in Judo or Gracie Ju Jitsu, and pronounce all things about the martial arts.

Well one of these in members who claimed experience in many arts put up a video which had an interesting effect: It kind of collectively produced an "hey the empror has no clothes!" effect, i.e. members with real legitimate experience had to say that despite this guy's conformity to the sites ethic...he was in effect doing the same misleading Bullsh1zzle (bullshido) that the site was supposed to root out.

For guys like Ray and Green, and many others, it has to get frustrating when people who really don't have a basis for a real opinion, are legitimized through red K green K, little tinket thingies, etc.

The thing is, exposing ****** opinions has to be part of the workings of a site because it is the only way to deal with ignorance. I know it gets frustrating for people!

So, the moral of the story? well...that site has seen many really quality martial artists come and go, but when this guy was exposed it was a constructive process. The same can be said for when ignoramuses here are exposed! KEEP POSTING GUYS

I think I know which site you mean. Something like Bushido forums right? I remember one time they tried to figure out if a guy who was seemingly beaten to death in a Karate dojo was still around, and they were able to accomplish a lot.

[billeau2]

I think I know which site you mean. Something like Bushido forums right? I remember one time they tried to figure out if a guy who was seemingly beaten to death in a Karate dojo was still around, and they were able to accomplish a lot.

Yeah you got it. That one started just around the time I left. I had gotten one of their admin guys into a pretty select meeting with Duncan's people and a japanese Sensei. Anyhow it kind of blew up in my face haha. It didn't effect Sam, who I got in, but I had a tiff with some of one of my teacher's students.

On that thread there were quite a few morons but there was some good work done. I hope those guys pay for that act....it was horrendous, reminds me of back in the day when dojo storming was alive and well.

[BKM-2010]

Yeah you got it. That one started just around the time I left. I had gotten one of their admin guys into a pretty select meeting with Duncan's people and a japanese Sensei. Anyhow it kind of blew up in my face haha. It didn't effect Sam, who I got in, but I had a tiff with some of one of my teacher's students.

On that thread there were quite a few morons but there was some good work done. I hope those guys pay for that act....it was horrendous, reminds me of back in the day when dojo storming was alive and well.

Hmm I'm sorry I don't know most of the stuff you're talking about, not familiar with the lingo and whole community I guess. I was only following that big thread, did they ever manage to find out if the beaten man survived that? Also I remember the last thing I read was that the owner was on the run and was facing atleast an arrest.

[billeau2]

Hmm I'm sorry I don't know most of the stuff you're talking about, not familiar with the lingo and whole community I guess. I was only following that big thread, did they ever manage to find out if the beaten man survived that? Also I remember the last thing I read was that the owner was on the run and was facing atleast an arrest.

It seemed at the time that the guy survived it, primarily because he wasn't found. That was at the time and with the understanding that info was controlled as not to effect actual investigation.

[TBear]

Are there even mods in this section anymore? Why is this guy still allowed to post he's clearly just trolling.

Of course there are. I read every post in here, several times a day. If lack of boxing knowledge or common sense was a bannable offense, 50% of the forum would be in trouble.