Moorer vs Holyfield what it tells us

[Elroy1]

Moorer never beat anyone of note at lhw,,,, Its crazy to say he is some great lhw... he never faced any type of competition there

Hmmm... Ok, I see your point. He never looked like being beaten though and bombed a lot of opponents out there.

Spinks did face better, that's true. But I still feel he would have struggled against Moorer H2H.

[Sugar Adam Ali]

Hmmm... Ok, I see your point. He never looked like being beaten though and bombed a lot of opponents out there.

Spinks did face better, that's true. But I still feel he would have struggled against Moorer H2H.

Yeah moorer looked great vs subpar competition... Not saying he is garbage, but he has no notable wins there so hard to rank him alongside spinks or foster, roy, etc...

That "spinks Jinx" would have been the downfall of moorer IMO

[Elroy1]

Holyfield was past prime 94-99,, he was still capable but nothing like he was in 90,91...

holyfield 94-99 is similar to shane from 03-09, chavez 91-97, still capable but def not the same caliber of fighter

94-99 was holy's steroid era

I think some of Holyfield's athletic qualities dwindled but his experience and strength compensated.

I rate the Holyfield that beat up Tyson a good version, but each to their own.

The problem with the assumption that Evander was done by 93 is that this leaves a short HW run of about 7 opponents.

2 Faded former greats with great weight and experience advantages,
Some good but not great primer fighters
A couple of chumps

Still a good, but not really a terrific run, lending credence to the guy who started this thread dissing Holyfield in the first place.

And of course then he met Bowe and lost, who I'd argue Holyfield never really convincingly beat in the rematch.

Put it this way, I think the 205 version of Holyfield probably would not have been able to do so well against Lennox and probably not have beaten Tyson.

[Sugar Adam Ali]

I think some of Holyfield's athletic qualities dwindled but his experience and strength compensated.

I rate the Holyfield that beat up Tyson a good version, but each to their own.

The problem with the assumption that Evander was done by 93 is that this leaves a short HW run of about 7 opponents.

2 Faded former greats with great weight and experience advantages,
Some good but not great primer fighters
A couple of chumps

Still a good, but not really a terrific run, lending credence to the guy who started this thread dissing Holyfield in the first place.

And of course then he met Bowe and lost, who I'd argue Holyfield never really convincingly beat in the rematch.

Put it this way, I think the 205 version of Holyfield probably would not have been able to do so well against Lennox and probably not have beaten Tyson.

I will respond,, give me 45 mins,,, im leaving work and headed home... will be responding once im on the crapper at home.....

You make some good points

[Sugar Adam Ali]

I think some of Holyfield's athletic qualities dwindled but his experience and strength compensated.

I rate the Holyfield that beat up Tyson a good version, but each to their own.

The problem with the assumption that Evander was done by 93 is that this leaves a short HW run of about 7 opponents.

2 Faded former greats with great weight and experience advantages,
Some good but not great primer fighters
A couple of chumps

Still a good, but not really a terrific run, lending credence to the guy who started this thread dissing Holyfield in the first place.

And of course then he met Bowe and lost, who I'd argue Holyfield never really convincingly beat in the rematch.

Put it this way, I think the 205 version of Holyfield probably would not have been able to do so well against Lennox and probably not have beaten Tyson.

Holyfield did have a very short reign at the top at heavy in his prime... But you have to consider he had wars at cruiser and cleaned out the division, and then had wars at heavy trying to get at Tyson.. The dokes fight was brutal..

Then after beating buster, he had a war with cooper, foreman, bowe twice.. Holyfield ate some major leather in those fights..

From 86-93 evander was in a war about every year.. And eating flush shots for foreman and bowe will shorten your career..

But Holyfield isn't great because of his heavyweight title run, it's because throughout his long career he fought everyone and generally had success..

Cruiser campaign
War with dokes
Title run
Beating bowe again
Comeback vs mercer in a war
Comeback vs Tyson twice

All those things combined make holy great..

Not too mention he fought every who was notable at heavy
Dokes
Douglas
Holmes
Foreman
Bowe
Mercer
Tyson
Moorer
Lennox
Ruiz
Rahman
Byrd
Valuev
Imbragov
Toney


And Holyfield would always beat Tyson IMO.. Better combination punching from a distance, a chin and heart to handle mike's onslaught and the will to win...

Lennox would always be a tough out for Holyfield, but watch their rematch and how Holyfield was able to land when he let his hands go.. I can only imagine what the 89-92 Holyfield would have done to Lewis.. Not saying evander beats him but it's 50/50 and would probably have a trilogy. Like bowe-Holyfield..


For the record, I thought evander. Clearly won the rematch... It was close but he clearly won IMO

[Elroy1]

Yeah moorer looked great vs subpar competition... Not saying he is garbage, but he has no notable wins there so hard to rank him alongside spinks or foster, roy, etc...

That "spinks Jinx" would have been the downfall of moorer IMO

That's fair enough view too. I wouldn't argue that bit any further. (y)

[billeau2]

1. Its not BS,,, your using fights from post 2000 to support your argument.. Do you use leonards fights vs norris and camacho,, Do you say tyson cant handle bigger guys cause he lost to lewis, danny, mcbride... Its just not accurate description of evander when your using fights like toney, byrd, igbramov...

2. Im not being a hypocrite, holyfield and moorer were both not at their peaks when they lost to each other... When holyfield was at his peak, only bowe could beat him, and it was an epic war.. Moorer was getting stopped by foreman..

3. Prime holyfield handled the boxing skills of holmes just fine and that holmes was much better than toney, or larry donald.. So i think its safe to say that holyfield could handle "boxers"

An old Holmes is your example of a boxer?
"Only Bowe could beat him" hih? and prey tell at his peak...ONLY at his peak mind you because....thats the Holy we are talking about...so tell me who else did he beat so spectacularly at heavy at Bowe's level?

some of you guys argue using no logical thinking....and I actually respect Hollyfield, but this nonsence is a joke: Bowe never established himself, so Holyfield's "peak" heavyweight performance amounted to a trilogy with Bowe, who later was exposed as a near do well who got taken to the cleaners by Golata who by the way....never fought Holyfield and who was beat by Lewis oh wait!!!! forget it it wasn't at golata's peak....never mind, HOlly beat Bowe once? twice? (not even the full monty) I forgot!

[billeau2]

Michael Moorer never even beat a top 20 light heavyweight. He shouldn't be in any discussion like that at all. His 175 lb dominance is another boxing myth. Bob Foster or Michael Spinks would have obliterated Moorer and his glass jaw.

My reason for considering Moore is at his peak he defeated Holyfield!!!!

Ok, Moorer had incredible skills, and I consider his skills such that he is up there at light heavy because of those skills. I didn't say that he fought great comp...I wouldn't cause he didn't.

Moore's dominance comes from the Kronk, its not a myth. He was well respected in that peking order and many fighters from Kronk have said that. Moore was a chronic underachiever....we make allowances for him like we do for many with skills and poor resumes.

[Sugar Adam Ali]

An old Holmes is your example of a boxer?
"Only Bowe could beat him" hih? and prey tell at his peak...ONLY at his peak mind you because....thats the Holy we are talking about...so tell me who else did he beat so spectacularly at heavy at Bowe's level?

some of you guys argue using no logical thinking....and I actually respect Hollyfield, but this nonsence is a joke: Bowe never established himself, so Holyfield's "peak" heavyweight performance amounted to a trilogy with Bowe, who later was exposed as a near do well who got taken to the cleaners by Golata who by the way....never fought Holyfield and who was beat by Lewis oh wait!!!! forget it it wasn't at golata's peak....never mind, HOlly beat Bowe once? twice? (not even the full monty) I forgot!

If your going to use Donald, toney and Byrd, and say Holyfield can't handle boxers, the it's only fair to mention Holmes..

How can you say bowe never established himself,, he was the lineal undisputed champ beating an undefeated atg fighter.. If that doesn't establish you I don't know what does?

And only bowe beatHolyfield at his peak. I don't know why your making a big deal out of me saying that.. It's a fact.. There's a huge difference between 94-99 evander and the 88-93 Holyfield..

[Elroy1]

Holyfield did have a very short reign at the top at heavy in his prime... But you have to consider he had wars at cruiser and cleaned out the division, and then had wars at heavy trying to get at Tyson.. The dokes fight was brutal..

Then after beating buster, he had a war with cooper, foreman, bowe twice.. Holyfield ate some major leather in those fights..

From 86-93 evander was in a war about every year.. And eating flush shots for foreman and bowe will shorten your career..

But Holyfield isn't great because of his heavyweight title run, it's because throughout his long career he fought everyone and generally had success..

Cruiser campaign
War with dokes
Title run
Beating bowe again
Comeback vs mercer in a war
Comeback vs Tyson twice

All those things combined make holy great..

Not too mention he fought every who was notable at heavy
Dokes
Douglas
Holmes
Foreman
Bowe
Mercer
Tyson
Moorer
Lennox
Ruiz
Rahman
Byrd
Valuev
Imbragov
Toney


And Holyfield would always beat Tyson IMO.. Better combination punching from a distance, a chin and heart to handle mike's onslaught and the will to win...

Lennox would always be a tough out for Holyfield, but watch their rematch and how Holyfield was able to land when he let his hands go.. I can only imagine what the 89-92 Holyfield would have done to Lewis.. Not saying evander beats him but it's 50/50 and would probably have a trilogy. Like bowe-Holyfield..


For the record, I thought evander. Clearly won the rematch... It was close but he clearly won IMO

When you said you thought Evander clearly won the rematch were you referring to Lennox or Bowe? Sure Evander won the 2nd Bowe fight but it was pretty close to a draw still imo, and Bowe was back to fat and lazy self, not the same as 92. And of course he KOed him in the 3rd. I think h2h Bowe was a bit better than Holy. If you meant Lennox, granted Holy did well against him but even in the 2nd, Lennox still won. It wasn't a really good Lennox performance, he was inconsistent sometimes.

The biggest dispute I'd have with you was that Holyfield would always have beaten Tyson. I think if Tyson and Holyfield fought before he got locked up that Tyson would have got up. Holy nearly got KOed by Cooper and went the distance with Holmes. It's tough for me to envision anybody 205lbs being able to beat Tyson. But I am aware Tyson divides fans.

For the record I think the best version of Holyfield could best version of Tyson.

As for the rest of your post, the entire first bit, I totally agree. He did accumulate a lot of damage which I admit takes a toll on a fighter, obviously. He always seemed to me though in the 90's to be pretty sharp despite, he was a tough guy. But in terms of the measure of his greatness by the calibre and quality of fighters he fought there can be no argument.

Holyfield fought among the best resumes of opposition of any boxer overall. No doubt.

Of course he is greater than Moorer!