How great...

[RockyMarcianofan00]

ah you were rite kid achilles i just found this which sort of cements what you said

What quality boxers does this produce, good or bad? Marciano's handler, Charley Goldman, says: "Too many youngsters, when they try to imitate the styles of great champions, forget it might not suit them... When Weill brought Rocky to me I saw he was a powerful puncher, but had short arms. There was no sense in me trying to make a fancy Dan out of him, so I tried to strengthen his good points, and slowly teach him to correct his weaknesses. Kids coming along today look at the great success Rocky has had and figure if they imitate him, they can be champ. They forget Rocky's wealth of natural ability."
Champion Marciano has his own ideas: "They don't box any more because a lot of good hitters have come along. Why waltz 10 rounds with an opponent if you can KO him in one?"

[Yogi]

yes, this is true, because in clay's first amateur bouts he looked just like marciano!

Hey, I've seen a couple of Ali's fights as an amateur, and even when at an advanced stage in those ranks, he didn't look so **** hot...much, much more stationary than he was during his best years as a pro, and believe it or not, watching Ali as an amateur almost looked like his hands were being throwon in slow motion (when compared to his later handspeed).

[Kid Achilles]

Exactly. And Goldman did give him speed. Marciano could come forward quicker than you'd think, he was actually pretty damn explosive when he lunged in with those punches (which he sometimes had to do to reach his taller rangier opponents). He had strong explosive legs, and it allowed him to lunge in like I said and of course it was the source of those devastating punches. Let's put it this way, if he was so slow, than why didn't guys get out of the way of his punches? We've all seen Marciano clobber Walcott and Charles with flurries of punches and those were all quick, slick guys, who had no interest getting hit by Marciano. The answer is he was quicker and smarter than he's given credit for.

Charlie Goldman was great for Marciano because he knew that Marciano could never win fights using the basic orthodox approach. He viewed his fighter's strengths carefully and developed the perfect style that played on those strengths. It was Goldman who directed Marciano to **** on the arms and shoulders of LaStarza to bring his guard down. Few guys would think of something like that, considering it a waste of stamina to punch on a guy's nonvital areas. Look at what that strategy did to Foreman. But Goldman knew Marciano's strengths, knew that with Marciano's combination of power, stamina, and muscular endurance in his arms, that it was a good sound strategy for the Rock. It worked as we all know, but would Marciano have been successful if not for the intelligence and imagination of Goldman in his corner? I'm not so sure.

Goldman was a severely underrated trainer IMO.

[butterfly1964]

Hey, I've seen a couple of Ali's fights as an amateur, and even when at an advanced stage in those ranks, he didn't look so **** hot...much, much more stationary than he was during his best years as a pro, and believe it or not, watching Ali as an amateur almost looked like his hands were being throwon in slow motion (when compared to his later handspeed).

word, do you think you could upload them for me?

[Yogi]

word, do you think you could upload them for me?

Umm...I don't have them on my comp, Butterfly, but I'll check around on a couple of other sites to see if there's anything available from his ammy days.

[RockyMarcianofan00]

Exactly. And Goldman did give him speed. Marciano could come forward quicker than you'd think, he was actually pretty damn explosive when he lunged in with those punches (which he sometimes had to do to reach his taller rangier opponents). He had strong explosive legs, and it allowed him to lunge in like I said and of course it was the source of those devastating punches. Let's put it this way, if he was so slow, than why didn't guys get out of the way of his punches? We've all seen Marciano clobber Walcott and Charles with flurries of punches and those were all quick, slick guys, who had no interest getting hit by Marciano. The answer is he was quicker and smarter than he's given credit for.

Charlie Goldman was great for Marciano because he knew that Marciano could never win fights using the basic orthodox approach. He viewed his fighter's strengths carefully and developed the perfect style that played on those strengths. It was Goldman who directed Marciano to **** on the arms and shoulders of LaStarza to bring his guard down. Few guys would think of something like that, considering it a waste of stamina to punch on a guy's nonvital areas. Look at what that strategy did to Foreman. But Goldman knew Marciano's strengths, knew that with Marciano's combination of power, stamina, and muscular endurance in his arms, that it was a good sound strategy for the Rock. It worked as we all know, but would Marciano have been successful if not for the intelligence and imagination of Goldman in his corner? I'm not so sure.

Goldman was a severely underrated trainer IMO.

yea i do underrate goldman alot, i hadn't really read a whole lot on him, a little but not much,

I knew marciano was fast coming in and getting out (which helped him dodge punches) but even I can tend to underrate some of Marciano's strength's ppl say i hug his nuts and overrate him but there's alot about him even i don't know so i hardly over rate him

Marciano + Goldman one of the most underrated fighter/trainer teams, together as well as seperate

[butterfly1964]

Umm...I don't have them on my comp, Butterfly, but I'll check around on a couple of other sites to see if there's anything available from his ammy days.

thank you from the bottom of my heart. you don't know how much i would reeeeaaaly appreciate that!!

[SuzieQ49]

great post kid achilles! agreed 100% about goldman.


goldman was perfect for marciano, like blackburn was perfect for louis.

[Yogi]

thank you from the bottom of my heart. you don't know how much i would reeeeaaaly appreciate that!!

Check your PM's, Butterfly.

[smasher]

would muhammad ali have been had he not been layed off from 1967-1970? Also how great would mike tyson be if he listened to rooney and stayed with him?

How great would Ali have been without the layoff and he was trained by and listened to Rooney....