Where does Archie Moore rank among goat?

[Holywarrior]

I don't think it was as dominant as Cervantes win over DeJesus but my memory might not be entirely accurate on that. Surely you'd concede that it is more impressive to win over the championship distance with the title on the line? That is why I think that the DeJesus win could even be superior to the Moore win considering that DeJesus was a hell of a fighter in his prime. DeJesus perhaps had the misfortune to have fought at lightweight when Duran was around and he was after all the only man to defeat Duran during the 70s.

Were Johnson's other wins any more impressive that Cervantes's title defences? You mentioned his heavyweight fights but were any of the bigger heavyweights that he defeated especially good? I suppose the names were Godoy, Valdes, Henry, and Machen. I'll have a closer look tomorrow at both careers but my feeling is still that it is close between the two.

Do me a favor: Go get a personality transplant so that you're no longer a pin-headed pseudo-intellectual douchebag 'tard. Then get back us.

Johnson's wins were better than Cerveantes', yes.

[Suckmedry]

Reading this forum blazed is hilarious

[joemama]

Moore was amazing. I voted top 15.

[Sugar Adam Ali]

He doesn't think the Holy Trinity of ross, canzoneri, mcclarnin should get much credit due to "mob" influence.

Thats not at all how i feel,, Dont put words in my mouth. Clearly they are great fighters, and i only take issue with them when people rank them top 10 or 15 ATG.. I have seen Ross as high as 2 or 3 before.. Ross is somwhere between 15-25, Mcclarin is 18-50 range and Cazonori is alittle farther back but not by much..
I only argue that they were in a very closed and protected era, and thats why i dont rate them as top 10 ATGs... Other than that i have no issue with them

I find it very hard to sneak Canzoneri into a top 10.

I as well... good fighter, Tough as nails, but i usually have ross, and mcclarin ahead of him.. Not by much, and you can make the case that cazoneri could be higher than Mcclarin.. I feel ross is above both, regardless

What the ****? Are you seriously insinuating that they are on the same level?

Moore is spheres above those, especially Floyd and Manny.

Since you rate Burley so highly, I am curious to know where you would place Holman Williams.

Manny and Floyd will get more appreciation after they are done fighting.. but i think they both end up top 30 when its all said and done.. Manny might be farther back..
For Burley I rate him so high due to his skill level, his resume is outstanding but i think his skill set is one of the best in history... As for Holman, another excellent fighter, top 100 but not as high as burley. I dont think his overall skills were as good as burley and i think he is a mid range 30-75 type ranking..

It’s ridiculously superior. For example, Pacquiao’s weight-climbing and victories over the overrated “Three Amigos” aren’t even close to being enough for placing him at the same kind of level as Moore.

Beating Harold Johnson four times is better than victories over fighters as Cuevas, Barrera, Castillo or Toney.

Moore’s resume simply takes a big, stinky dump on theirs. I don’t know how you could argue anything else.

You make some good points, I wasnt trying to compare their resumes, just stating that Moore IMO isnt top 10, and somewhere in the Teens, and i was just using some names of the top of my head that i find to be in that same range.. Moore is around 14, floyd would be 18-25, manny is probably around 25-50..

Not to be rude, but that’s probably the worst comparison I’ve seen in quite some time.

No its not,, Moore and toney have alot of style and career similarities. Toney just was not mentally tough enough and professional enough to stay on top for very long.. Moore was a much better professional, but in terms of skills sets, and weight jumps, these 2 are very similar.. Toney himself saws he copies alot of Moore's style.. So i dont think its a bad comparison at all, I think your taking it to literally

No he is not, that’s bogus. I agree on Tunney and Hagler being rated somewhat close, but Moore is above them. CLEARLY. Just like Mickey Walker.

Tunney, Hagler, Moore and mickey walker are all pretty interchangeable, no matter how you rank them, they will only be separated by a fraction..
SRL is clearly above all of them, as he beat a host of prime or near prime ATGs and won.. He lack of longevity hurts his resume, but considering that he has wins over benetiz, duran, hagler, hearns, Kalule, Thats a great list of wins.

I doubt the no nothings in here even know who Kalule is. Shameful stuff in this thread.

I do know who Kalule is, the undefeated 154 champ that Leonard came up and beat before the Hearns Fight..
Great win for leonard, and yet it hardly gets talked about, since Ray has so many top level wins, and why i rate SRL so high

[Sugar Adam Ali]

Benitez/Hearns was close? Watch the fight and stay off of boxrec.

Williams was called as good as Robinson, by Eddie Futch.

Beat Charley Burley on three occasions, the bigger Lloyd Marshall on two occasions, the monstrous Jack Chase four out of four, Eddie Booker, Kid Tunero, Steve Belloise, Aaron Tiger Wade, Bert Lytell twice, a light-heavyweight Archie Moore, legendary puncher Bob Satterfield, and Joe Carter. Seriously you want to debate this?

Tell me who did Hagler or Monzon beat that stack up to that resume?

Thats a really good post in favor of Williams...

[Sugar Adam Ali]

They aren't very close though. Moore's resume is much better.

Using H2H shouldn't be a "tiebreaker" anyway.

Burley's resume is hard to determine, since he was basically ignored in terms of title shots... and yes i think H2h is a good tiebreaker... How can it not be.. We are trying to figure out who is better, and to ignore the fact that one guy beat the other, is just ******, especially considering it was in boths prime and not a camacho-duran type fight where they are both well past it

Moore wasn't in his prime for a lot of his loss's.

Fact is, Duran lost to the best fighters he faced.

But what does it really mean? Doesn't really mean anything because look at the people that he beat.

Moore lost a lot of fights, he fought a lot of good fighters and had a lot of fights so it's bound to happen.

But what he did do is beat a lot of fighters ranging from good, to very good, to GREAT.

I agree with alot your saying... My only point with moore is that he never had a lengthy run on top, like duran had at 135, or benny leonard, or joe louis..
Your right, he fought all comers, and your bound to have some losses when you fight a schedule like he did, but I think that holds him back just slightly compared to other greats... Had he had a dominant reign somewhere in his career, i think he would be a lock for the Top 10, as it stands now, i think he is a solid #14

[greeh]

Yes I do believe that, the versions of the fighters William's defeated in the ring (plus taking into account the circumstances surrounding the fights) at least match up with the fighters I listed on Hagler's record.

Williams resume is better, whether you like it or not.

And no – a “statement” from you doesn’t change the fact - because, you know… You’re still a mong.

[Holywarrior]

I as well... good fighter, Tough as nails, but i usually have ross, and mcclarin ahead of him.. Not by much, and you can make the case that cazoneri could be higher than Mcclarin.. I feel ross is above both, regardless

I as well! Holy moly we agree!

[Holywarrior]

I don't think it was as dominant as Cervantes win over DeJesus but my memory might not be entirely accurate on that. Surely you'd concede that it is more impressive to win over the championship distance with the title on the line? That is why I think that the DeJesus win could even be superior to the Moore win considering that DeJesus was a hell of a fighter in his prime. DeJesus perhaps had the misfortune to have fought at lightweight when Duran was around and he was after all the only man to defeat Duran during the 70s.

Were Johnson's other wins any more impressive that Cervantes's title defences? You mentioned his heavyweight fights but were any of the bigger heavyweights that he defeated especially good? I suppose the names were Godoy, Valdes, Henry, and Machen. I'll have a closer look tomorrow at both careers but my feeling is still that it is close between the two.

Who gives a fcuk about Dejesus when you'rre talking about Ezzard fcuking Charles.

[Sugar Adam Ali]

I as well! Holy moly we agree!

We agree alot more than you think, my friend.. You just like to nitpick my posts for any errors.. LOL always trying to get me to slip up