Who thinks the FIRST clay-liston fight was fixed?

[Oasis_Lad]

here they are. http://www.boxingscene.com/forums/po...ts&pollid=2553

im not surprised to see mystal there
but the rest have never come across as tyson fanatics
they must hace legeitimit reasons

[Brockton Lip]

???????? Nobody brought up wanking except you.

[Southpaw Stinger]

Your such a charmer chum, I bet your a real hit with the ladies. And your the one who brought up wanking in all those PM's and pictures you keep sending me.

[butterfly1964]

im not surprised to see mystal there
but the rest have never come across as tyson fanatics
they must hace legeitimit reasons

what legitimate reason can they have, besides they must have clicked the wrong button?

[BKM-]

Liston was getting beat by Ali with ease. Whats so hard to understand?

[Oasis_Lad]

what legitimate reason can they have, besides they must have clicked the wrong button?

thats what they have done done

[butterfly1964]

Liston was getting beat by Ali with ease. Whats so hard to understand?

at least we both agree on something.

[Yogi]

You don't need to look at rankings in ring magazine. Just watching the fight you can see that Louis is far from his best. There was time where he kept Marciano at bay with his long reach, but he didn't have the stamina to keep up any type of pace by which to win. Louis was overweight and slow by the time of the fight. Louis had no real heart by which to win either, he was fighting for money, not to win or prove himself.

Louis wins over other boxers just shows how poor the competition was at that time. Forget rankings and magazines, watch the fight and see what an ill miss match it was.

Why wouldn't you need to look at all available info surrounding the fight, whether it be newspaper article, ratings, fight footage, and whatever else?

To me, it all lends to what was going on during that particular time (both before & after the fight), and if you don't take the time to learn as much info as you can, then you're going to be prone to revising history...which is wrong, because info on historic events is MUCH better if you can get contemporary information on them, don't you think?

Before I get onto the fight, what makes you claim that "Louis had no real heart by which to win either, he was fighting for money, not to win or prove himself"?

I know, I know...you're going to bring up his financial/tax troubles as some kind of attempt to back that statement up, aren't you?

Well, how about some quotes from Louis?

Like from the New York Times from the week leading up to the fight, where he very confidently stated that not only did he think he was going to knock out Marciano (Oct 24th edition, after knocking his last sparring mate out cold...Holly Smith was that fighter's name), but also stated that he really wanted to be the first fighter to regain the Heavyweight crown (Oct 21st edition)...From Louis' own words just before the fight he sounds like he'd certainly & completely disagree with your comments...

Revisionist history, that's all you're doing.

And yeah, I've seen the Marciano/Louis fight many times and like I said in the opening, Louis wasn't at his best when he fought Marciano, and was somewhat slow/methodical with his punches at times during the fight (mostly, I guess...he could be pretty methodical at times when he was primed too)...But I also saw some spring in his step at times, as well, whether it be on defense when he was avoiding, when on the inside when landing some decent uppercuts, or when he was outside fighting behind the jab...He faded over the last couple of rounds, but up until that point he was still fighting smartly and on even terms with a pretty great fighter in his own right.

[Southpaw Stinger]

And Louis was confident before the fight... fascinating. You'll find most old heavyweight champs on a comeback were over confident themselves. Ali genuinly believed that he was going to beat Holmes. You often don't know how badly age effects you until you are actually tested.

Why not bring up Louis tax problems? It was the only reason he was fighting at the time. Marciano was a hungry young contender looking for a title shot, Louis was a fading old former champ looking for a pay day.

Regardless of their previous performances, you can't say it was an evenly matched fight because it wasn't.

[Yogi]

Regardless of their previous performances, you can't say it was an evenly matched fight because it wasn't.

"Louis Rated Even With Marciano for 10-Round Battle At The Garden Tonight" - New York Times' heading for Oct 26th, which was the day of the Marciano/Louis fight

Apparently those boxing writers who were actually around during that time and were in the very city that the fight would take place, would completely disagree with attempt at revisionist history.