Who Thinks Butterfly Overrates every single oppnent Ali Has Fought.

[Yogi]

don't be mad cause ali owned your boy frazier, ok?

1st fight: Frazier with a clear win
2nd fight: Toss-up that could've gone either way
3rd fight: Ali with a clear win

Basically I see the Ali/Frazier trilogy as being quite even when all was said and done, with neither of the two being "owned" by the other.

[butterfly1964]

1st fight: Frazier with a clear win
2nd fight: Toss-up that could've gone either way
3rd fight: Ali with a clear win

Basically I see the Ali/Frazier trilogy as being quite even when all was said and done, with neither of the two being "owned" by the other.

wrong! the first fight frazier definetely won, but ali wasn't outright dominated, and frazier was more injured than ali was. the second fight frazier was crushed, utterly! the third fight ali got a clear win on a tko.

[Yogi]

wrong! the first fight frazier definetely won, but ali wasn't outright dominated, and frazier was more injured than ali was. the second fight frazier was crushed, utterly! the third fight ali got a clear win on a tko.

Ok, you've said Frazier definately won the first fight, which I certainly agree with, although I may have had it by a little bit wider margin than you did (pretty even for the first ten rounds, but Frazier dominated the later rounds, including the big 11th & 15th rounds in his favour...144-139 on my card). I saw a clear win for Frazier with my own eyes.

And the third fight Ali had a pretty commanding points lead on my card when Futch stopped it (like Frazier did in their first fight, Ali had some big rounds late), so a clear win that is in his favour.

But the second fight?

Pfft...there's absolutely no way Ali "utterly crushed" in that fight, Butterfly...Sorry, but with my own eyes I saw that as a very close matchup that could've gone either way at the end of the night. Ali built up a lead in the opening rounds and did have a big round in the second when he hurt Frazier. But from the 4th or 5th round on I thought it was Frazier who was getting the better of the action, and to me that work he did in the mid-rounds was enough to pull him back even with Ali through my eyes, which is a level they stayed at for the rest of the fight.

Nobody was getting "crushed" in that second fight, man!

[butterfly1964]

Ok, you've said Frazier definately won the first fight, which I certainly agree with, although I may have had it by a little bit wider margin than you did (pretty even for the first ten rounds, but Frazier dominated the later rounds, including the big 11th & 15th rounds in his favour...144-139 on my card). I saw a clear win for Frazier with my own eyes.

And the third fight Ali had a pretty commanding points lead on my card when Futch stopped it (like Frazier did in their first fight, Ali had some big rounds late), so a clear win that is in his favour.

But the second fight?

Pfft...there's absolutely no way Ali "utterly crushed" in that fight, Butterfly...Sorry, but with my own eyes I saw that as a very close matchup that could've gone either way at the end of the night. Ali built up a lead in the opening rounds and did have a big round in the second when he hurt Frazier. But from the 4th or 5th round on I thought it was Frazier who was getting the better of the action, and to me that work he did in the mid-rounds was enough to pull him back even with Ali through my eyes, which is a level they stayed at for the rest of the fight.

Nobody was getting "crushed" in that second fight, man!

i thought the second fight was pretty lopsided.

[RockyMarcianofan00]

i thought the second fight was pretty lopsided.

of course it was because ali lost

[Heckler]

You do realise that Ali won the second fight right? and Frazier was nearly stopped in the 2nd? Ali won that convincingly.

[RockyMarcianofan00]

Frazier won the second fight

[Heckler]

And Ali NEVER owned frazier, ali put up a brilliant fight in FOTC but unfortunately Frazier did more so. He won the second fight and barely won the 3rd. No-one owned anyone.

[Heckler]

Could you produce some kind of justification marciano instead of a mere 'Frazier won the 2nd fight'. I think Ali won the 2nd fight quite clearly, especially when taking into consideration Frazier was saved from a knockdown in the 2nd.

"Almost 21,000 fans filled the Garden as the pair went into the ring. Ali had learnt from defeat. He knew exactly what Frazier would bring to the contest. Round one went to Ali: Frazier barely touched him. In round two started to get into rhythm but was quickly shattered when Ali landed a withering right. Frazier was stunned by the punch and might have gone down with a follow up. But Ali was denied by the intervention of referee Tony Perez who mistakenly thought the bell had sounded.

Almost 21,000 fans filled the Garden as the pair went into the ring. Ali had learnt from defeat. He knew exactly what Frazier would bring to the contest. Round one went to Ali: Frazier barely touched him. In round two started to get into rhythm but was quickly shattered when Ali landed a withering right. Frazier was stunned by the punch and might have gone down with a follow up. But Ali was denied by the intervention of referee Tony Perez who mistakenly thought the bell had sounded.

Ali continued to dominate the fight throwing more punches than Frazier. When Frazier got close Ali would grab him around the neck and hold him until the referee broke the clinch. Frazier began to make headway in rounds eight and nine, keeping Ali pinned to the ropes with heavy body shots. Then, just as he had with Ken Norton, Ali changed his tactics and began to trafe punches with Frazier, winning some hard exhchanges. As the later rounds came and went, Frazier realised he was done. Ali's superior technique had overcome his rage. The older man won comfortably.

Now Ali would fight again for the Heavyweight Title."

Informed insight from a boxing historian that watched this match closely without bias.

[RockyMarcianofan00]

Could you produce some kind of justification marciano instead of a mere 'Frazier won the 2nd fight'. I think Ali won the 2nd fight quite clearly, especially when taking into consideration Frazier was saved from a knockdown in the 2nd.

"Almost 21,000 fans filled the Garden as the pair went into the ring. Ali had learnt from defeat. He knew exactly what Frazier would bring to the contest. Round one went to Ali: Frazier barely touched him. In round two started to get into rhythm but was quickly shattered when Ali landed a withering right. Frazier was stunned by the punch and might have gone down with a follow up. But Ali was denied by the intervention of referee Tony Perez who mistakenly thought the bell had sounded.

Almost 21,000 fans filled the Garden as the pair went into the ring. Ali had learnt from defeat. He knew exactly what Frazier would bring to the contest. Round one went to Ali: Frazier barely touched him. In round two started to get into rhythm but was quickly shattered when Ali landed a withering right. Frazier was stunned by the punch and might have gone down with a follow up. But Ali was denied by the intervention of referee Tony Perez who mistakenly thought the bell had sounded.

Ali continued to dominate the fight throwing more punches than Frazier. When Frazier got close Ali would grab him around the neck and hold him until the referee broke the clinch. Frazier began to make headway in rounds eight and nine, keeping Ali pinned to the ropes with heavy body shots. Then, just as he had with Ken Norton, Ali changed his tactics and began to trafe punches with Frazier, winning some hard exhchanges. As the later rounds came and went, Frazier realised he was done. Ali's superior technique had overcome his rage. The older man won comfortably.

Now Ali would fight again for the Heavyweight Title."

Informed insight from a boxing historian that watched this match closely without bias.

hang on now i'm confused beyond belief let me get my thoughts together before i make another post