Roy Jones Jr or Mike Tyson

[Scott9945]

From one extreme of grossly underrating >>>>>>>>>>


To the OTHER extreme of grossly overrating >>>>>>>>>>


:rolleyes9: :rolleyes9: :rolleyes9: :rolleyes9:

Or in other words, another day in the NSB Forum.

[StarshipTrooper]

Or in other words, another day in the NSB Forum.

Yeppers.....

[Mike Tyson77]

Without Mike Tyson, their would be no Mike Tyson77. "Iron" Mike brought me in. And im so thankful for that.

[Sugarj]

Interestingly enough Larry Merchant had Thomas up 3 rounds to 2 when the KO occurred. 2 of the judges had 3-1-1 for Tyson and 1 judge had 5-0 for Tyson. Not sure who was watching which fight lol.

Poet

Lord! What was going on there?

To be honest, I was impressed by how game Thomas was considering the blows he took early on, he probably deserved a round or two when Tyson stepped off the gas; but felt that he wasn't quite the fighter he was prior to losing to Berbick. I gather he had all sorts of substance abuse issues.

[Sugarj]

Spinks to win? Really? Who picked him Leon? The belt holders were NOT the quality fighters that you build a "legend" off of.
Why make excusses for his prep facing Evander? He knew what was in front of him and he wasn't confident because he knew it was time to face a guy that wasn't gonna circle or run. We knew Evander was gonna stand his ground and look to be first and counter and back Mike up. Tyson knew what was coming and he couldn't buffalo Evander because Evander is one of the tuffest fighters EVER! Tyson was NOT! Tyson hurt Buster early you can find it maybe in the 5th round or so, I don't remember which. Once Mike threw his best and nothing happened he didn't have the skills to contend with someone who constantly wanted to back him up. The fights he went the didtance in there wasn't the constant pressure applied to be able to dominant.
He got lucky with who was there at the time, plus his style was going to put him over because other than Frazier theres hasn't been a successful heavy who fought in a pressure style like Mike since Rocky.
I understand the generation that Tyson fought in thinking he's a great fighter but he wasn't he fought exciting fights early against easy competition. He generated excitment even when he made a fool of himself at press confrences but the press ate it up and the all time leach Don King racked it.
Sorrow but this guy was a 4 round fighter, he had good punches was very fast with his feet positioning and hands. Had a great fight plan (ala Cus) but he also fought in the most difficult style to fight in as you get older. We saw it with Paterson and Jose' too when you can't maintain the weaving and step at the same time you begin to stand and when that happens they were done.
They never learned laterial movemments and all of them were in love with their hooks and forgot their jabs in key situations. Thats the way I see and I was there! Ray

Spinks was considered a legend in the making at the time. An ATG light heavyweight with two decisions over Larry Holmes. Undefeated. Granted Tyson was favorite but the odds with the bookies were not overwhelming by any means.

I've said before Ray, the belt holders were not Tyson's fault. He fought the best of his time in his prime. So what that they were not the stuff of 'legend'. That wasn't Tyson's fault and you shouldn't judge him for that.

As for Buster Douglas, I've watched that fight alot and can't think of Buster being badly hurt before the 8th round. Tyson landed some passable punches before then, but nothing that seemed to hurt Douglas or have him in too much trouble.

This thread is about who was the more dominant fighter in their prime. Tyson was not 'prime' for Holyfield. No objective observer of the sport would say that he was. Tyson's prime was 86-89.....and he was still pretty useful through 90 and 91. In 1996/97 and beyond......no chance.

I'd disagree about your comment about Tyson lacking confidence when facing Holyfield. If anything he was overconfident! The odds were 33:1 in his favour. Holyfield had all sorts of rumours surrounding him about a dodgy heart, he'd been knocked out by Bowe the previous year and looked pretty shot against Bobby Czyz. People were worried about Holyfield's safety.

But I agree with you that Holyfield did have more heart than Tyson. He was super tough, Holyfield had/has as much desire as any heavyweight I can think of.

[TysonBomb]

Spinks to win? Really? Who picked him Leon? The belt holders were NOT the quality fighters that you build a "legend" off of.
Why make excusses for his prep facing Evander? He knew what was in front of him and he wasn't confident because he knew it was time to face a guy that wasn't gonna circle or run. We knew Evander was gonna stand his ground and look to be first and counter and back Mike up. Tyson knew what was coming and he couldn't buffalo Evander because Evander is one of the tuffest fighters EVER! Tyson was NOT! Tyson hurt Buster early you can find it maybe in the 5th round or so, I don't remember which. Once Mike threw his best and nothing happened he didn't have the skills to contend with someone who constantly wanted to back him up. The fights he went the didtance in there wasn't the constant pressure applied to be able to dominant.
He got lucky with who was there at the time, plus his style was going to put him over because other than Frazier theres hasn't been a successful heavy who fought in a pressure style like Mike since Rocky.
I understand the generation that Tyson fought in thinking he's a great fighter but he wasn't he fought exciting fights early against easy competition. He generated excitment even when he made a fool of himself at press confrences but the press ate it up and the all time leach Don King racked it.
Sorrow but this guy was a 4 round fighter, he had good punches was very fast with his feet positioning and hands. Had a great fight plan (ala Cus) but he also fought in the most difficult style to fight in as you get older. We saw it with Paterson and Jose' too when you can't maintain the weaving and step at the same time you begin to stand and when that happens they were done.
They never learned laterial movemments and all of them were in love with their hooks and forgot their jabs in key situations. Thats the way I see and I was there! Ray

You are getting off topic with a typical anti Tyson diatribe but I'll address it

Holyfield was probably the biggest cheat in heavyweight history. The only way he could "beat" Tyson is from never ending headbutts ... this guy had headbutts as parts of his combinations ... after he took HGH his dome became even more massive and he just smashed it into people

He butted Tyson so profusely that his knees actually buckled from one of them during their first fight ... "Holy" deserved to have his ears ripped off after that kind of repeated f@ggotry

The reality of the "Holy" vs Tyson fights

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t1YEUENDwNY

Tyson also never hurt Buster early and survived a brutal beating until round 10. Even though he landed far fewer punches he managed to still drop Buster in round 8. To cut it short, Buster Douglas had the stars aligned for him that night and recorded the biggest upset in modern boxing history.

Everyone acknowledged Tyson as a great fighter because he was. His handspeed, power, speed, agility, defense, technical skills were all at the top. The only man to intimidate his opponents like that despite physically being the smaller man most of the time. Before his fight with that cheating clown Mike was a reasonably well spoken guy and hardly made a fool of himself at press conferences. Its clear that you don't know about Tyson and his prime years.

And you are really going to talk about conventional boxing skills when Roy doesn't even know how to throw a jab?? All he had were reflexes and speed ... and when they wore off he became a joke who was destroyed by Tarver, Glen Jhonson, Danny Green, and Lebedev. Dude was a serial ducker in his prime and never gave rematches to Toney or Hopkins until years later. Cherry picked all of his opponents and jumped around weight classes to avoid the best fighters.

[Anthony342]

Sometimes the answers to these questions become "who do you like more".
Sometimes we could just make the thread "Tyson or Jones" without a question and let people go at it.

Everybody has the right to their own opinion, it is my opinion Jones Jr. was more dominant, especially at middle and super middle.

But not at light heavy? Where he held the Ring belt and all but one major alphabet title belt? I thought Jones was considered one of the most dominant light heavyweights of all time?

[Ray Corso]

Do Tyson fanatics have more excusses than "prime years" for Mike??? The guy fought as a bully, FACT! If you can get threw his power and could back him up he gets hurt or quits, FACT! I'm not di*****g that Mike had skills I just don't rate him as high as others. Once he stood up out of the crouch he stood up into punches! Look at the fights!! The fights he scored KOs in were against ordinary guys that were known as "opponents". Tysons early opponents were hand picked by his management and a few were from Vito Tallerita who had the largest "opponents" stable in the country.
You guys don't know what it took to get Mike were he was and everyone knew there was going to be stumbling blocks ahead with Evander and Lennox!
Thats the bottom line and how it went down.
Roy had more athletic ability, and was taught to box in a style that he could maintain as he grew older. Tyson didn't! Ray.



sugarj Spinks lost both bouts to Holmes. Holmes did his own thing all through his career the firsdt Spinks decision was a "payback" for Larry being so indepediant! Spinks as a heavy is a JOKE!

[Anthony342]

Spinks was considered a legend in the making at the time. An ATG light heavyweight with two decisions over Larry Holmes. Undefeated. Granted Tyson was favorite but the odds with the bookies were not overwhelming by any means.

I've said before Ray, the belt holders were not Tyson's fault. He fought the best of his time in his prime. So what that they were not the stuff of 'legend'. That wasn't Tyson's fault and you shouldn't judge him for that.

As for Buster Douglas, I've watched that fight alot and can't think of Buster being badly hurt before the 8th round. Tyson landed some passable punches before then, but nothing that seemed to hurt Douglas or have him in too much trouble.

This thread is about who was the more dominant fighter in their prime. Tyson was not 'prime' for Holyfield. No objective observer of the sport would say that he was. Tyson's prime was 86-89.....and he was still pretty useful through 90 and 91. In 1996/97 and beyond......no chance.

I'd disagree about your comment about Tyson lacking confidence when facing Holyfield. If anything he was overconfident! The odds were 33:1 in his favour. Holyfield had all sorts of rumours surrounding him about a dodgy heart, he'd been knocked out by Bowe the previous year and looked pretty shot against Bobby Czyz. People were worried about Holyfield's safety.

But I agree with you that Holyfield did have more heart than Tyson. He was super tough, Holyfield had/has as much desire as any heavyweight I can think of.

Love Holyfield. I'll answer Jones to the original question, because not only did he not lose fights, but he didn't lose many rounds in his prime and made most of his opponents look ordinary with his footwork and hand speed. Anyway, about Holyfield, he last fought in May of 2011. I hope he doesn't again as he will be 50 in October. A two time lineal heavyweight champion and one time Ring champion should be enough for anyone, plus being Ring, lineal and undisputed champion all at the same time and defending those 3 times is a heck of an achievement and makes him one of the best of his era and puts him somewhere on the best of all time list, maybe top 50, 75, whatever.

[TBear]

But not at light heavy? Where he held the Ring belt and all but one major alphabet title belt? I thought Jones was considered one of the most dominant light heavyweights of all time?

He was still dominate, unifying the WBA, WBC and IBF titles defines dominance. Something fighters today just avoid doing. I just feel he was better served at super middleweight and middleweight the weight seemed more natural.