Joe Louis vs both Klitschkos

[New England]

good, so we agree, the klitschkos are robotic.

theres just something about most of louis's punches that resemble a arrow fired from a bow and something about specifically wlads right hand that resembles a piston.

are you the guy who defended himself for about 20 pages after saying that "george foreman was not a big puncher," only to leave the history section for months after being thoroughly shamed?

[Spartacus Sully]

are you the guy who defended himself for about 20 pages after saying that "george foreman was not a big puncher," only to leave the history section for months after being thoroughly shamed?

25 year old louis vs 32 year old ali? who wins?

thats right after Schelling around galento bob foster godoy area.

[Sugarj]

25 year old louis vs 32 year old ali? who wins?

thats right after Schelling around galento bob foster godoy area.

I wasn't aware that Bob Foster's first move up to heavyweight was to fight Louis. Hee hee

[Spartacus Sully]

I wasn't aware that Bob Foster's first move up to heavyweight was to fight Louis. Hee hee

damn got me there, Bob Pastor*

[nomadman]

good, so we agree, the klitschkos are robotic.

I would agree that Vitali is robotic in his movements, not Wlad. Your insistence on continually merging the two into a single entity doesn't allow you to make an accurate analysis of the two fighters as individuals.

Wlad is not a smaller, weaker-chinned clone of his brother, he's a different fighter with a different skillset and different attributes. Too many people fail to see that, which inevitably leads to the same sort of posts in fantasy fight threads involving the two: Vitali lasts the distance or gets TKOed late, Wlad gets KTFOed early. Always the same, regardless of the opponent. It's silly. What poses problems for one won't necessarily pose problems for the other, and vice versa.

And it's not always so simple as, "big punchers beat Wlad, quick boxers beat Vitali."

[bojangles1987]

I would agree that Vitali is robotic in his movements, not Wlad. Your insistence on continually merging the two into a single entity doesn't allow you to make an accurate analysis of the two fighters as individuals.

Wlad is not a smaller, weaker-chinned clone of his brother, he's a different fighter with a different skillset and different attributes. Too many people fail to see that, which inevitably leads to the same sort of posts in fantasy fight threads involving the two: Vitali lasts the distance or gets TKOed late, Wlad gets KTFOed early. Always the same, regardless of the opponent. It's silly. What poses problems for one won't necessarily pose problems for the other, and vice versa.

And it's not always so simple as, "big punchers beat Wlad, quick boxers beat Vitali."

Klitschko fans are just as responsible for merging the brothers so often as others are. I've seen far too many treat their individual accomplishments as counting for both.

[nomadman]

Klitschko fans are just as responsible for merging the brothers so often as others are. I've seen far too many treat their individual accomplishments as counting for both.

Yeah, I know. That's wrong too. Wlad didn't avenge his loss to Sanders by having his brother beat him, any more than Vit avenged his loss to Byrd by getting Wlad to take him out.

I'm consistent with my views on treating them as individuals at all times. Can't speak for anyone else.

[Spartacus Sully]

I would agree that Vitali is robotic in his movements, not Wlad. Your insistence on continually merging the two into a single entity doesn't allow you to make an accurate analysis of the two fighters as individuals.

Wlad is not a smaller, weaker-chinned clone of his brother, he's a different fighter with a different skillset and different attributes. Too many people fail to see that, which inevitably leads to the same sort of posts in fantasy fight threads involving the two: Vitali lasts the distance or gets TKOed late, Wlad gets KTFOed early. Always the same, regardless of the opponent. It's silly. What poses problems for one won't necessarily pose problems for the other, and vice versa.

And it's not always so simple as, "big punchers beat Wlad, quick boxers beat Vitali."

id say the exact opposite, vitali is much less robotic then wlad.

and theyd both get ktfo early vs louis.

[nomadman]

id say the exact opposite, vitali is much less robotic then wlad.

and theyd both get ktfo early vs louis.

How do you see both fights panning out?

Apologies if you've already posted it, just refer me to the quote if so.

[nomadman]

It's kind of hard to say. Primarily because, we have guys in two distinct era's. I mean, both of these guys outweigh and outsize Joe. However, Joe outshines them easily in the talent factor.

I'm gonna go out on a limb(sorta) and say that Louis would defeat both. I do believe that Vitali would give Joe much more trouble than Wlad. He has a much more awkward style that would definately present lots of problems for Joe. I think he'll have a very hard time being able to hit him for the first half of the fight. But, he'll wear him down gradually with some strong body shots. I'm speculating that he'll catch up with him somewhere around the 9th or 10th in a disappointingly dull fight. TKO for Joe Louis.

As far as Wlad goes he'll have a much more easy time. I'd say the fight would end just about the first time Wlad gets hit with one of Joe's killer bombs. The fight would somewhat resemble Wlad's fight against Sanders. The only difference would be that Joe has much more talent. Fight would last somewhere around 3-5 rounds. Wlad falls victim to the three-knockdown rule.

Are you factoring in Wlad's superior reactive speed and ability to control distance here? I think that negates a lot of his perceived chin weakness, since he very rarely gets hit flush nowadays, and even then usually only one shot at a time.

I'll never argue that Wlad has an iron chin, but IMO people put too much importance on his three (rather brutal) stoppage losses, and draw erroneous conclusions from there. Haye was only the latest in a number of fighters post-Brewster who was supposed to KO Wlad early with the first shot he landed. He hardly landed at all, and when he did it didn't end things as predicted. This isn't the first time this has happened, yet lessons are never learned from it.

Haye and Louis are different fighters of course, and I'm not comparing them, but the manner in which they are/were supposed to win is eerily similar to any number of former opponents. "All it takes is one shot..." "Just one shot and it's all over..." etc. You can argue that Louis is a harder puncher than Haye, or Sanders, or Peter, or Brewster, but there were a number of fighters Louis faced who weren't KTFO by the first good shot he landed, nor the second or third... fighters like 175lb Billy Conn, who ate a number of solid hooks, rights and uppercuts before succumbing late in the fight.

To think that he just drops Wlad cold with one shot is unrealistic IMO.

If Louis stops Wlad it'll be from a combination after he stuns him against the ropes and either the ref doesn't allow Wlad to clinch or Louis is able to fight his way out of the clinch. I think that's unrealistic too, but a mite more probable.