Shavers vs Joe Louis

[StarshipTrooper]

Had Frazier and Ali never fought you can bet everyone on this forum would have picked Ali by a lopsided wooping in a fantasy match.

If it's a prime Ali circa 1967 then I still do pick Ali by a good margin.

Poet

[them_apples]

If it's a prime Ali circa 1967 then I still do pick Ali by a good margin.

Poet

I've looked at the idea of that fight as well. Seeing Ali against Chuvalo in the first fight he was incredible. So maybe you have a point, but at the same time, he was taking shots from Chuvalo, I personally don't see the fight being a whole lot different. Frazier might hit the canvas though at some point.

Regardless, replace my example with a more fitting one, you get the idea. People need to be a little more open minded when it comes to fantasy match ups.

It seems like every fight always has someone hinting at a one sided drubbing.

[Sugarj]

Ok let's get his straight, Louis is clearly the better more rounded fighter, but in a head-to-head match up I give Shavers a huge chance. Louis always kept his left low and was open for a right hand over the top lead or counter. Walcott hit him with this and so did Schmeling, I know others have too.

Shavers would also be in with someone of similar size. I'm not one to care much about size but in this case I think it would let Shavers feel like the bigger man for once.

What happens when Shavers connects with his right hand?? He would most definitely, without a doubt in my mind as he did so against much better defensive minded fighters.

I know Louis has a punchers chance, but I don't see that coming into effect untill about round 5, Shavers was usually done by then anyways.

I'd like to hear some unbiased ideas, I personally can see Louis just getting stopped - a small chance that he weathers the storm and turns the tables on shavers abruptly, but Shavers by KO is a big chance of outcome.

Shavers nearly knocked Holmes out cold in his prime, if it wasn't for Holmes incredible evasive abilities he would have been finished. He also hurt Ali badly, who had one of the best chins of all time bar non and possibly the most heart.

I agree with you. Its a very dangerous fight for Louis, and were they to have say a three fight series, I'd put money on Shavers pulling off a stoppage win on one of them.

Of course there is every chance that Louis would give Shavers an even more embarrassing one round whipping than Jerry Quarry did. But a slightly poor day at the office type of evening for Louis could be fatal, he had a few off nights of course (Schmelling 1, Galento, Farr).

[Barn]

I agree with you. Its a very dangerous fight for Louis, and were they to have say a three fight series, I'd put money on Shavers pulling off a stoppage win on one of them.

Of course there is every chance that Louis would give Shavers an even more embarrassing one round whipping than Jerry Quarry did. But a slightly poor day at the office type of evening for Louis could be fatal, he had a few off nights of course (Schmelling 1, Galento, Farr).

I'd argue Shavers would need 30 fights to pull off an upset.

[The_Demon]

no actually the thread turned into a who vs who but its actually a style vs style.

I brought up Louis difficulty avoiding a right hand over the top the same one that Schmeling landed over and over till the championship rounds. I figured Shavers would land it as well.

I think a lot of people are letting Louis' greatness get in the way here.

It's like saying whos greater? Ali or Norton? they went life and death however. Ali is the much greater boxer. Styles play a huge role.

peeps are knocking Shavers for being stopped by quarry in the first, what about Schmeling's multiple stoppages inside the first quarter?? before he met Louis.?

All speculation, I'm just surprised how lopsided the comments are. It's almost as if nobody bothered to think about it.

Im pretty sure people have thought about the match-up,hence why they have posted their opinions on it,just because they completely disagree you doesnt mean they have dismissed anything

Not once has anybody said 'Louis wins simply because hes the greater fighter'-everybody has given valid reasons as to why they think he would win

[Capaedia]

Shavers wouldn't need a "great shot" to get rid of Louis. He was decked by much lesser punchers than Shavers. Shavers nearly knocked iron chinned Holmes out cold. Not only is Holmes iron chinned but he's hard to hit as well.

Louis could be knocked down, but knocking him out was a different matter. His recuperative skills and focus were top-notch.

He was only ever knocked out after prolonged beatings. For Shavers the opposite is true.

Louis never had an iron chin nor did he ever incredible defense. Do you catch my drift? or am I crazy?

But he had a great chin, and good defense. Shavers was no technician, most of the time Louis is going to be out of his range. When Louis is in range he's going to beat Shavers to the punch.

I've seen Louis get rid of one dimensional punchers as well, don't think I'm leaning only in Shavers favour. It's at least a 50/50 fight for me depending on Louis gameplan.

Louis has quicker hands, shorter punches and much better stamina, so I haven't missed those factors. He survives the initial early rounds then it's Louis fight no doubt.

I just don't like this growing "one sided" approach to fantasy match ups. Not giving a certain boxer a chance what so ever based on another fighters greatness.

Had Frazier and Ali never fought you can bet everyone on this forum would have picked Ali by a lopsided wooping in a fantasy match.

That's because without Frazier, no-one would have proven Ali had problems with swarmers. Now if there was anything that you could say of Louis, it'd be that men like Shavers were never any match for him.

I'm just not seeing much chance of Shavers knocking Louis out due to that one defensive liability (that he fixed after Schmeling I) before Louis knocks Shavers out to due to his several defensive liabilities.

Louis is simply the better fighter offensively and defensively, and while they both have the power to knock each other out, Louis is much better at delivering that power and harder for it to be delivered to.

[Ray Corso]

The best heavyweight ever!! Against a fighter who maybe breaks into the top fifty? As far as power goes Ernies right hand had the power thats it!! Joe Louis had power in ALL his punches, his left hook could put anyone on the floor. The power department is in Louis corner not Ernies and whos going to land with the most frequence plus power? I like Ernie and his power could be a caution in most fights but he doesn't hold Joes gloves, honestly theres no comparisons. Joe Louis was not a small man either he had size over Ernie, at 6'2" 205lbs. I had Joe Louis and Ali at a dinner honoring one of Joes best sparring partners and former Heavyweight boxer named Georgie Fitch and Ali looked slight standing next to Joe. Ali is a legit 6'3" and Louis at 6" 2" looked bigger. Granted long after his ring days but he only was up to about 235lbs then and Ali was about 230lbs. Ernie was probably 5"11" at best and had long arms but didn't have good reactions when punches came to him, hes a great guy but not in the league of greats, he just isn't! Ray Corso

[them_apples]

The best heavyweight ever!! Against a fighter who maybe breaks into the top fifty? As far as power goes Ernies right hand had the power thats it!! Joe Louis had power in ALL his punches, his left hook could put anyone on the floor. The power department is in Louis corner not Ernies and whos going to land with the most frequence plus power? I like Ernie and his power could be a caution in most fights but he doesn't hold Joes gloves, honestly theres no comparisons. Joe Louis was not a small man either he had size over Ernie, at 6'2" 205lbs. I had Joe Louis and Ali at a dinner honoring one of Joes best sparring partners and former Heavyweight boxer named Georgie Fitch and Ali looked slight standing next to Joe. Ali is a legit 6'3" and Louis at 6" 2" looked bigger. Granted long after his ring days but he only was up to about 235lbs then and Ali was about 230lbs. Ernie was probably 5"11" at best and had long arms but didn't have good reactions when punches came to him, hes a great guy but not in the league of greats, he just isn't! Ray Corso

When Louis was fit he wouldn't be as big as Ali. I like how you have a lot of boxing xp but a lot of your posts are brutally biased. Shavers was 6'0 ft, 210 sure but his legs were toothpicks. He was like Roger Mayweather at HW. His upper body was huge, and not an artificial big like Shannon briggs, he was born that way.

Size is besides the point, I wasn't even using that as a big factor. 198 lb Louis sparked huge men anyways. Even Marciano got rid of men 6'4 220+

[GoogleMe]

I've never seen anything special in Shavers, besides power in a fight against an old Ali.
Joe Louis is just from a different planet compared to Shavers. He may not have quite the same power, but he has got a very strong left hook, and very good overall power. Louis' technique and precision is just uncompareable to Shavers for me.
Louis will take him out during the middle rounds.

[mickey malone]

Can Shavers nullify the potency of Louis's spiteful left jab??

Joe was no dancer but fleet of foot in comparison to Earnie so i can't really see how Shavers lands with any regularity and would be an open invitation to Louis's upper-cut combos from that plodding hermit crab stance of his..

Can only see one winner - Joe Louis in about 5 rounds