Marciano: alternate legacy

[McGoorty]

And BTW, for some other posters in this thread, resumes aren't just about "names": The career stage that that name is at determines whether the name means anything or not. Johnson does NOT get any credit for smacking around a washed-up Jeffries by anybody that has a working brain cell. Or are we counting Ali as anything other than a meaningless sparring session for Holmes? Ali at that career stage was no better than a tomato can and Holmes gets as much credit for it as he would for beating up any no-name tomato can culled from the local tough-guy circuit.....that is to say he gets NO credit for it. Just so, Johnson shouldn't be getting any credit for Jeffries either.

Poet

I agree with most of that, but even a washed up great is more dangerous than an inexperienced bum.... they say the punch is one of the last things to go. and unless he is too punch drunk (Jeffries wasn't), he still knows what he always knew,... the experience is always there.... I give you 93% for that ...lol...

[McGoorty]

The problem with Tunney isn't that he wasn't a great fighter (obviously he WAS and any one claiming differently needs his head checked out) but that he had only around 6 fights at Heavyweight out of a 60+ fight career. I don't know how anybody can be ranked in a division where they had that few fights. It's why we don't rank Roy Jones as a Heavy even though he, like Tunney, won a title there. The body of work in that division is simply too small to truly gauge how good was at that particular weight.

Poet

Massive difference between the title Tunney won and whatever that bauble was that Jones got.... but yeah I agree that you have to take into account how many fights he had at HW.

[McGoorty]

POet I don't know if this is for me or not...that was just a list, I made trying to give each boxers as many names as I could...In all fairness, even then most guys will likely have still not enough to take the ommision of 4 fighters.

I give Marciano credit for beating up Charles, not because what I read about him or his resume (or names in the resume), but because on video I think he tested Marciano as much as anyone or better than most.

I don't give Charles too much credit for beating Louis, since Louis beat a lot of good heavies after Charles beat him, (which I hope you agree), I am more interested in giving Louis the status of a good contender...surely he was good enough to be #9 in ones resume (this is where I put him in Charles)...

I agree about Ketchel and Burns...I think too much credit is given for ****ing those guys, I doubt even Hagler (a P4P great chin), will survive any good heavyweight, forget ATGS.

I hope you agree.

For such a small HW champion,... Tommy Burns WAS a GREAT fighter...... he had Darcy's reach too.

[McGoorty]

Jackson was worse than shot.

I admit that I didn't google to check the date, poor Peter Jackson is one of my favourite fighters to ever live.

[Marchegiano]

Wow, as the only fella with his name as a handle, and pic avatar. I'm a little puzzled as to why y'all still are speculating why he's popular. It's got nothing to do with being white. Nothing to do with record, and 100% in the way he knocked people around. No one's got a KO reel like Rocky. Giant HW who by all means look like bigger, heavier hitters, seem to cause less destructive KO's. Marciano makes you question when the guy's going to get up. It's his brutality I like.

You don't watch those KO's and go "wow and thats Louis" like it makes a god damn difference. Look at what he's throwing. It really doesn't matter who's head that hand lands on. It's a brutal, mean punch, with full body motion in terrific explosion. Y'all are way too hung up on records. His crouch is 100% his, his constant pressure and power are 100% his. The way guys fell all his. The length they stayed down, his. His total lack of respect for the other fighter's talents. There are no sluggers nearly as good at that end of boxing. 49-0? don't give a damn. Louis, Moore, Ezzard, and Jersey gone? I'd still be relishing the rabbit punch on ****ell. Roland being drilled in the side on the ropes is my background on my cell. Pay attention to displayed skills. Tyson and Tua similar sluggers. no one's like Rocky until you get good and ****ing bare fist old.



Joe- If you actually give a damn, and want to put effort into communication, your misunderstanding what I'm telling you.

[Barn]

Sure, but A great MW can beat a poor HW,... especially if he can carry some extra pounds of muscle easily a la a certain MW I know..... but the main question is proved, take the top 4 off and they all go down the list by quite a way. Ditto for 99.95% of all boxers.

Mickey Walker did it, routinely.

[MJ223]

Hey fellas its a Joe Frazier appreciation thread in NSB and I would greatly appreciate it if you guys stopped by.

[Tiozzo]

Could knock the top 4 fighters off most fighters resumes and knock em a fair way down though surely Jabs?

lol exactly...

[Marchegiano]

It seems Rocky is really underrated here

Yeah man, seems so. No love for the p4p hardest hitting gloved HW champ. What's worse is since Rocco gets little respect those he beat get next to none. Roland LaStarza was a damn good boxer. I appreciate his career. Charles was attacked already on this thread, and Charles on a good night was bleeding brilliant boxing. Rex was a decent bully and a hellacious bruiser. The whole era gets a bad rap. It's like no one can watch a fight and tell what type of fighter they're watching. I mean it's ****ing blatant that Mike Perez should not fight Vitali right? Apparently if no one knew their records it wouldn't be. Apparently you can't tell who's the superior ring general if they've only fought cans. And what if Mike had a record more suiting of a contender. Would there be masses of fans calling for him to face a Klitschko? Does having names change the way Wlad moves? No man, having names is supposed to be addition evidence, not main argument. Your main point ought to have more to do with stance, techniques used, skill sets and less to do with stats, %'s, and names.

[Great John L]

Marciano's name is inextricably tied to that of Walcott, Charles, and Moore, and without them you have no real Marciano. How would the world have known of the courage, determination, and iron toughness of Marciano had he not soldiered through the beatings by Walcott and Charles to win? Had he lost, we would have no notions of his ability to defy the odds and take insane punishment, winning with his nose hanging off his face. We would have a rough and tough guy good enough to beat an old Joe Louis, but not the top level fighters of the time. If he didn't have those wins, he wouldn't be Marciano. I don't think he could even be ranked as a great without them. Lastarza and Layne were also good wins, but Rocky wasn't pushed to the brink by them the way he was with Charles and Walcott. What would we think of Ali if he lost to Liston and Foreman?