RJJ vs Hagler

[IMDAZED]

Yeah beating HOFer Bernard Hopkins and shutting out Castro who is probable as good as anybody Hagler beat besides Hearns

Castro was kinda old. Love the Hopkins win but give me a prime Hagler over that version any day. And Hopkins gave Roy problems.

[joseph5620]

Yeah beating HOFer Bernard Hopkins and shutting out Castro who is probable as good as anybody Hagler beat besides Hearns

Comments like this are why you can never be taken seriously. At 160 Jones was not ready for a fighter like Hagler and you are seriously overrating Castro.



And I'm a Jones fan.

[Mugwump]

Not undeveloped; developing. Degree of comfort for me. The same Castro? Norris eviscerated him before Roy. Castro-Roy was one-sided but brisk, more competitive relatively because Jones wasn't as rounded out when he fought Castro as Terrible Terry was.

Jones was already very good but, he got better and, IMO, developed the mental maturity he would have needed for a prime beast like Hagler after he was gone from Middleweight. Hopkins was an example of a guy getting comfortable in the limelight considering how much more advanced Jones was then Hopkins at that point.

By the same token, Hagler grew as a fighter after some close drops against the sort of serious veterans craftsmen who nobody wanted a piece of for years like Watts and Monroe. The fighter Hagler became in the run to the title, and his first few years as champion, was an ATG with power, speed, and underrated defense. Jones was a great talent at 60 with flashes of great fighter in him; he was a flat great fighter at 68 and 75.

At 60, I'll take developed greatness over just getting there.

Good post.

[GJC]

Yeah beating HOFer Bernard Hopkins and shutting out Castro who is probable as good as anybody Hagler beat besides Hearns

Castro being the fighter that a ancient Duran beat? Ok if you want to throw in Castro for RJJ then I guess you would have to throw in Duran for Hagler, no?

[SCtrojansbaby]

Castro being the fighter that a ancient Duran beat? Ok if you want to throw in Castro for RJJ then I guess you would have to throw in Duran for Hagler, no?

Both Castro and Duran were old and fat when they fought there "home and home series". Point still stands that Roy's second best win at middleweight is just as good as Hagler's second best win.

Hagler's win against Duran wasn't exactly impressive, Duran was probable the quickest and most crafty fighter Hagler had fought to that point and Duran made Hagler look bad at times. Roy shut Castro out.

[GJC]

Both Castro and Duran were old and fat when they fought there "home and home series". Point still stands that Roy's second best win at middleweight is just as good as Hagler's second best win.

Hagler's win against Duran wasn't exactly impressive, Duran was probable the quickest and most crafty fighter Hagler had fought to that point and Duran made Hagler look bad at times. Roy shut Castro out.

Castro was what, 30 when Duran beat him? Wouldn't say Castro was prime as I'm not sure he ever had one. Duran fought Hagler how many years earlier?
Nope Duran at least = Castro as a win. Duran kept the fight competitive but Hagler was firmly in control against a decent motivated Duran. Judges scored it closet than it was and I'm a far bigger Duran fan than Hagler fan

[GJC]

. Point still stands that Roy's second best win at middleweight is just as good as Hagler's second best win.

I don't think Hagler had a Harry Greb/SRR resume but I'd favour Hamsho,Mugabi, Minter, Roldan and a few others to beat Castro.
Don't get me wrong I'd count RJJ as a top 20 p4p atg but I'd favour Hagler at MW h2h and resume wise

[SCtrojansbaby]

Castro was what, 30 when Duran beat him? Wouldn't say Castro was prime as I'm not sure he ever had one. Duran fought Hagler how many years earlier?
Nope Duran at least = Castro as a win. Duran kept the fight competitive but Hagler was firmly in control against a decent motivated Duran. Judges scored it closet than it was and I'm a far bigger Duran fan than Hagler fan

Castro has already had >100 fights by the time he fought Duran both were fat and old(Duran obviously older but it really is no indication of the fighter they were in 92 and 83 and Castro definitely had a prime he was ranked the #2 middleweight in the world for about 2 years

And as I said Castro is as good as any fighter that Hagler beat minus Hearns so we agree.

[gatorDelux]

mugabi, hamsho, duran that hagler fougt in 83, antuoafermo> castro

[SCtrojansbaby]

I don't think Hagler had a Harry Greb/SRR resume but I'd favour Hamsho,Mugabi, Minter, Roldan and a few others to beat Castro.
Don't get me wrong I'd count RJJ as a top 20 p4p atg but I'd favour Hagler at MW h2h and resume wise

Mugabi(lol) Minter and Roldan aren't as good as Castro. Hamsho maybe is slightly better than Castro but the difference is negligible.

The whole Castro argument is only to show that Roy was already developed as a middleweight.