How long would Marciano last against Vitali?

[New England]

One question bat...

If I ask a 6'8" man to hit a guy who is effectively 5'6" do you think it will be easy? I do not think that Vitaly is overly skilled. And secondly while we all know how well Vitaly can take in the chin, we have never seen him being tested by a good body puncher.. . I do think Rocky slips inside and gives Vitaly's body a good pounding. How Vitaly takes it is a matter of conjecture....but in classic 15 rounder I do see him losing in points.

infinitely easier than it is to punch up

you can do so much more fighting a smaller man and punching down

you can bring punches up and under
you can upjab and hook off of the jab
you can throw the hook at a trajectory level to your ******* with your palm down and it will hit your opponent i the head
and most importantly you generate leverage transferring weight from your back foot to front and "falling" (similar to the way you walk,) to create power //leverage on your right hand

thats why you can throw a baseball much harder coming off of a pitchers mound
swing a slegehammer downward if you want to break something
chop at a downward angle if you want to fall a tree (do young people chop trees today? i doubt it !)


rocky would have to be in the range of the right hand to work the body
he'd have virtually no angle for a straight right hand, so he'd have to loop it
and his arms are short, so it's going to have to be a very short loop


my guess would be that vitali would make it very boring and cover him up every time he tried
he'd just throw an arm over rockys shoulders and lean on him from almost a foot higher


i don't know if you boxed, bro, but it's next to impossible to win a decision like that unless you're willie pep and can get in and out, which rocky wasn't.

you have to be able to break your man down and knock him out
you need to have the better chin, have the better engine, have a completely superior skillet and level of talent to win a fight with disadvantages like that (almost a foot of height, over a foot in reach, and about 60 lbs)

i think rocky's face would get lit up and he'd lose a ud.
vitals' chin is too solid. he'd probably get tagged a few times, but i don't think he's going to get his head shot around, or get his body worked consistently which would be the only real threat)


i still think he knocks wladimir out, though
nine or ten rounds

i think it would be a classic
wladimir gets a bit shaky as he's trying to tie a man up
it's almost like he blinks when his opponent is punching or something
i cant put my finger on it.

[McGoorty]

I think the proud Rocky would be stopped by his corner in about 10 rounds after taking one hell of a beating.

It is not an even contest, how would Darchinyan, go against Roy Jones, not an even contest. An uneven contest proves nothing. Super-Heavyweights should have their own Division, so I can steer clear of big boring bums, give me WW's or LW's any day.

[McGoorty]

infinitely easier than it is to punch up

you can do so much more fighting a smaller man and punching down

you can bring punches up and under
you can upjab and hook off of the jab
you can throw the hook at a trajectory level to your ******* with your palm down and it will hit your opponent i the head
and most importantly you generate leverage transferring weight from your back foot to front and "falling" (similar to the way you walk,) to create power //leverage on your right hand

thats why you can throw a baseball much harder coming off of a pitchers mound
swing a slegehammer downward if you want to break something
chop at a downward angle if you want to fall a tree (do young people chop trees today? i doubt it !)


rocky would have to be in the range of the right hand to work the body
he'd have virtually no angle for a straight right hand, so he'd have to loop it
and his arms are short, so it's going to have to be a very short loop


my guess would be that vitali would make it very boring and cover him up every time he tried
he'd just throw an arm over rockys shoulders and lean on him from almost a foot higher


i don't know if you boxed, bro, but it's next to impossible to win a decision like that unless you're willie pep and can get in and out, which rocky wasn't.

you have to be able to break your man down and knock him out
you need to have the better chin, have the better engine, have a completely superior skillet and level of talent to win a fight with disadvantages like that (almost a foot of height, over a foot in reach, and about 60 lbs)

i think rocky's face would get lit up and he'd lose a ud.
vitals' chin is too solid. he'd probably get tagged a few times, but i don't think he's going to get his head shot around, or get his body worked consistently which would be the only real threat)


i still think he knocks wladimir out, though
nine or ten rounds

i think it would be a classic
wladimir gets a bit shaky as he's trying to tie a man up
it's almost like he blinks when his opponent is punching or something
i cant put my finger on it.

Very good post man, that's what I call an Analysis.

[Marchegiano]

infinitely easier than it is to punch up

you can do so much more fighting a smaller man and punching down

you can bring punches up and under
you can upjab and hook off of the jab
you can throw the hook at a trajectory level to your ******* with your palm down and it will hit your opponent i the head
and most importantly you generate leverage transferring weight from your back foot to front and "falling" (similar to the way you walk,) to create power //leverage on your right hand

thats why you can throw a baseball much harder coming off of a pitchers mound
swing a slegehammer downward if you want to break something
chop at a downward angle if you want to fall a tree (do young people chop trees today? i doubt it !)


rocky would have to be in the range of the right hand to work the body
he'd have virtually no angle for a straight right hand, so he'd have to loop it
and his arms are short, so it's going to have to be a very short loop


my guess would be that vitali would make it very boring and cover him up every time he tried
he'd just throw an arm over rockys shoulders and lean on him from almost a foot higher


i don't know if you boxed, bro, but it's next to impossible to win a decision like that unless you're willie pep and can get in and out, which rocky wasn't.

you have to be able to break your man down and knock him out
you need to have the better chin, have the better engine, have a completely superior skillet and level of talent to win a fight with disadvantages like that (almost a foot of height, over a foot in reach, and about 60 lbs)

i think rocky's face would get lit up and he'd lose a ud.
vitals' chin is too solid. he'd probably get tagged a few times, but i don't think he's going to get his head shot around, or get his body worked consistently which would be the only real threat)


i still think he knocks wladimir out, though
nine or ten rounds

i think it would be a classic
wladimir gets a bit shaky as he's trying to tie a man up
it's almost like he blinks when his opponent is punching or something
i cant put my finger on it.

You've taken the legs out too much. I do box, and I do box slow. I'm 5'7" I weigh 168lb steady and have never fought a sanctioned fight, but I've also never fought a guy less then 30lbs and six inches on me. I've been in gyms for 20 years. My normal everyday sparring mate is 6'3" and weighs 230lbs. I'm not saying your wrong about anything. I'm saying you've written a "tall vs short" bit not a "Rocky vs Vitali". You can't hit me in a crouch without me hitting you. I'm willing to prove this to anyone in the state of Florida. The fall step is akin to pitching, so is the crouch. They both generate power, and obviously the inclusion of both brings the biggest punch. Dropping your full weight back then launching it forward. Do you chop trees with out bending your knees? Do you bring the axe to the apex, or just a bit back? It isn't as simple as get to the apex and let it go. Go a head and try to punch at your knee's hight with a fall step. I promise my crouch will neutralize it. You can't punch nipple high....i'm ducked. As far as the angles, listen mate the crouch was invented to neutralize them. How the hell are you going to up anything if up is somewhere between your knees and thighs? You've got to come into my range and play my game. And that is the lost truth. If you went back in boxing history you'd find there are plenty giant killers. Giant's can't fight a short man's fight any more than a short man can fight tall. It will hurt your hips, your legs, your shoulders, and back. Even if your winning. Of course Vitali isn't going to fight a short man fight. He'll fight tall and Rocky will fight short. The fact that Vitali get first throw due to range comes with the fact that Rocky gets first counter due to range. Vitali HAS to bend down to hit him. You CAN'T stand tall and hit some one a foot shorter than you and crouching. I don't give a damn what you think will happen after that, but that is exactly what goes on when you work the crouch against tall guys. They throw and bend their bodies or their knees more then they're used to. Again. I don't mean to claim your overtly wrong. I mean to claim you've written exactly perfect for a guy who is standing, not crouching. Holistically mad respect to you. I'd love to box for you my friend, maybe soon I'll put up clips.


C'mon Battling you know I don't give damn about a KO record that's better than half TKO's.

[Greatest1942]

infinitely easier than it is to punch up

you can do so much more fighting a smaller man and punching down

you can bring punches up and under
you can upjab and hook off of the jab
you can throw the hook at a trajectory level to your ******* with your palm down and it will hit your opponent i the head
and most importantly you generate leverage transferring weight from your back foot to front and "falling" (similar to the way you walk,) to create power //leverage on your right hand

thats why you can throw a baseball much harder coming off of a pitchers mound
swing a slegehammer downward if you want to break something
chop at a downward angle if you want to fall a tree (do young people chop trees today? i doubt it !)


rocky would have to be in the range of the right hand to work the body
he'd have virtually no angle for a straight right hand, so he'd have to loop it
and his arms are short, so it's going to have to be a very short loop


my guess would be that vitali would make it very boring and cover him up every time he tried
he'd just throw an arm over rockys shoulders and lean on him from almost a foot higher


i don't know if you boxed, bro, but it's next to impossible to win a decision like that unless you're willie pep and can get in and out, which rocky wasn't.

you have to be able to break your man down and knock him out
you need to have the better chin, have the better engine, have a completely superior skillet and level of talent to win a fight with disadvantages like that (almost a foot of height, over a foot in reach, and about 60 lbs)

i think rocky's face would get lit up and he'd lose a ud.
vitals' chin is too solid. he'd probably get tagged a few times, but i don't think he's going to get his head shot around, or get his body worked consistently which would be the only real threat)


i still think he knocks wladimir out, though
nine or ten rounds

i think it would be a classic
wladimir gets a bit shaky as he's trying to tie a man up
it's almost like he blinks when his opponent is punching or something
i cant put my finger on it.

One thing you are missing that the fight will be not in a hyperbole...In Rocky's era Vitaly will not weigh so much, in todays era Rocky will weigh around 220 easy...That weigh advantage wont be as much as u say.


Well actually you know I do believe that Rocky would slip Vitaly's jabs. Yea Vitaly will tie him up , but there will be times when Rocky will slip his punches and hit his body. And I doubt Vitaly will be able to match Rocky's pace for 15 rounds...I have seen him breathless in close fights...I do think that till 8 rounds or around that Vitaly will be in good shape...as his stamina deteriorates he will find it harder to keep up...height was everything jess Willard would have beat Dempsey...And Carnera would have knocked out Louis...Rocky would be more difficult for Vitaly to hit than the staright up guys he fight now a days...sure he was no Willie Pep , but he was better defensively than he is given credit for...better than most Vitaly faced anyways...

I dont know how you can count Rocky's chin out...it was tested enough...As for as Vitaly I would have liked to see how his holds up against his brother and Lewis the second time...Even if Vitaly has the edge...he is not knocking Rocky out.

On a side note, I dont believe Vitaly is overly skilled either...a black and white filming technology used in the 1930's would probably make him look like Carnera.

But I am not blind to Vit's advantages...he might win against Rock...I am sure in a 5 fight series he will win his share...but the Rock made a career of overcoming every obstacle...Bryd vs Vitaly and Walcott vs Rock...the Rock fought on after being blinded for almost 3 rounds...

"In the sixth, as the stocky challnger came up out of his customary crouch with the fighters at close range, their heads cracked together and blood spewed from a deep cut on Marciano's forehead and from a gash on Walcott's left eye-lid. The champion's injury looked worse, but in the succeeding rounds it was Marciano who suffered. A combination of blood from his own cut and some form of medication used on Walcott's wound found it's way into Marciano's eyes, leaving him virtually blind and defenseless as Walcott ripped in hooks and uppercuts. Between rounds his corner team of Freddie Brown, Charlie Goldman and Aliie Columbo worked frantically, rinsing their man's inflamed eyes with small sponges soaked in cold water. By the ninth, the eyes had started to clear."

As for the body shots , heres what bryd thinks of Vitaly quitting : - "That’s why I was so happy after the fact that it didn’t seem like he was truly hurt, but in the fight I threw really good body shots and early on he wasn’t grunting at all when I hit him to the body and then in the fifth or sixth round he started to, and I’m like, ‘Oh, I’m getting to him, more and more, and people don’t see this’. I’m like wow. That’s why I kept cutting the distance if you noticed in the fight and he ended up quitting"

In a fight where your heart will be tested, I will always go with the Rock...

Btw excellent post

[McGoorty]

One thing you are missing that the fight will be not in a hyperbole...In Rocky's era Vitaly will not weigh so much, in todays era Rocky will weigh around 220 easy...That weigh advantage wont be as much as u say.


Well actually you know I do believe that Rocky would slip Vitaly's jabs. Yea Vitaly will tie him up , but there will be times when Rocky will slip his punches and hit his body. And I doubt Vitaly will be able to match Rocky's pace for 15 rounds...I have seen him breathless in close fights...I do think that till 8 rounds or around that Vitaly will be in good shape...as his stamina deteriorates he will find it harder to keep up...height was everything jess Willard would have beat Dempsey...And Carnera would have knocked out Louis...Rocky would be more difficult for Vitaly to hit than the staright up guys he fight now a days...sure he was no Willie Pep , but he was better defensively than he is given credit for...better than most Vitaly faced anyways...

I dont know how you can count Rocky's chin out...it was tested enough...As for as Vitaly I would have liked to see how his holds up against his brother and Lewis the second time...Even if Vitaly has the edge...he is not knocking Rocky out.

On a side note, I dont believe Vitaly is overly skilled either...a black and white filming technology used in the 1930's would probably make him look like Carnera.

But I am not blind to Vit's advantages...he might win against Rock...I am sure in a 5 fight series he will win his share...but the Rock made a career of overcoming every obstacle...Bryd vs Vitaly and Walcott vs Rock...the Rock fought on after being blinded for almost 3 rounds...

"In the sixth, as the stocky challnger came up out of his customary crouch with the fighters at close range, their heads cracked together and blood spewed from a deep cut on Marciano's forehead and from a gash on Walcott's left eye-lid. The champion's injury looked worse, but in the succeeding rounds it was Marciano who suffered. A combination of blood from his own cut and some form of medication used on Walcott's wound found it's way into Marciano's eyes, leaving him virtually blind and defenseless as Walcott ripped in hooks and uppercuts. Between rounds his corner team of Freddie Brown, Charlie Goldman and Aliie Columbo worked frantically, rinsing their man's inflamed eyes with small sponges soaked in cold water. By the ninth, the eyes had started to clear."

As for the body shots , heres what bryd thinks of Vitaly quitting : - "That’s why I was so happy after the fact that it didn’t seem like he was truly hurt, but in the fight I threw really good body shots and early on he wasn’t grunting at all when I hit him to the body and then in the fifth or sixth round he started to, and I’m like, ‘Oh, I’m getting to him, more and more, and people don’t see this’. I’m like wow. That’s why I kept cutting the distance if you noticed in the fight and he ended up quitting"

In a fight where your heart will be tested, I will always go with the Rock...

Btw excellent post

I think that Marciano was at his premium at his normal fighting weight, I don't agree totally with the 220 analysis. Rocky's greatest asset in my opinion was his tirelessness, if he was 30 lbs heavier he may hit harder but that extra weight could affect his ability to keep up his unending attack, he would not throw as many punches in a fight. And your premise is a total what if, Rocky was not a 220 lb fighter, the extra muscle needs MUCH MORE OXYGEN, therefore, one tires at a much quicker pace. Rocky could have been heavier if he chose to be but Rocky was too wise for that.

[BigStereotype]

He might make it to the finish line, but I doubt very much that he wins it. Someone was saying he hits like a bitch...until he actually sits on his punches. Then, he hits real goddamn hard. He toys with opponents a lot of the time. Now, Albert Sosnowski is no Marciano, but Vitali screwed around with him for eight rounds, then hit him twice clean in the ninth and a few more times in the tenth and knocked him out cold. When Vitali wants to punch, he can reallllllllly punch. Not on a Foreman, Shavers or even Wlad level, but right below that. As hard as you can hit without being a one-punch KO puncher.

Also, this isn't quite apples to apples, but I've punched up and I've punched down and punching down is MUCH easier. You have to arm your punches if you're punching up. Easier to throw your weight into one going down.

[Greatest1942]

I think that Marciano was at his premium at his normal fighting weight, I don't agree totally with the 220 analysis. Rocky's greatest asset in my opinion was his tirelessness, if he was 30 lbs heavier he may hit harder but that extra weight could affect his ability to keep up his unending attack, he would not throw as many punches in a fight. And your premise is a total what if, Rocky was not a 220 lb fighter, the extra muscle needs MUCH MORE OXYGEN, therefore, one tires at a much quicker pace. Rocky could have been heavier if he chose to be but Rocky was too wise for that.

Truth is that marciano weighed over 200 pounds regularly when he was not boxing and not fat...his bone structure was that of a 200 pounder...I doubt in todays age of improved nutrition and conditioning he will weigh less than 210 pounds...pretty similar to Bryd whom Vitaly quit against...who did hang with Vitaly...I believe that todays improved nutrition will enable Rock to weigh a bit more than he did and still be in top shape...

[BattlingNelson]

Looking through this thread, I find it strange how some of the klitsmashers (particularly from this thread: http://www.boxingscene.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=493286 ) is absent here.

[The Surgeon]

I dont feel the result is a given so im not going to comment on how long Rocky would last......