Futch-Arcel, who was the greater trainer?

[Wild Blue Yonda]

Futch was the one who basically laid out the groundwork while Yurham was in charge. He didnt want to take the spotlight, so he had no problem taking a backseat and allowing Durham to take the main credit

I dont know much about Arcel, which kinds of disqualifies me form this debate

I wouldn't be so sure of that, if I were you. Durham was taking credit for a reason. He had Frazier's ear at least as much as Futch did. It was said that Durham was a little more important in the pure aspect of motivation for Frazier.

Frazier still credits Durham with a 30-second speech which he was replaying in his head even as he entered the arena for his first fight with Ali, undoubtedly the biggest occasion of his career. The quote, which came during camp weeks before the fight, was something along the lines of, "This is it, Joe. This is where God judges you. Lose this fight, & they'll be saying you were just a seat-warmer for Clay, & always were."

Frazier said he lived & breathed that quote, he fed on it, it drove him.

Durham had huge influence on Frazier. I actually went with Arcel in this poll, at any point. He improved Duran, & for a fighter firstly so talented, & secondly so recklessly aggressive in his early LW days, that takes enormous know-how, patience, & expertise --- the kind only working with impresarios like Jack Dempsey & Benny Leonard can afford you. To say nothing of Duran's weight issues he was repeatedly distracted with.

Arcel for me, but Futch is beyond reproach in his own right.

[JAB5239]

I wouldn't be so sure of that, if I were you. Durham was taking credit for a reason. He had Frazier's ear at least as much as Futch did. It was said that Durham was a little more important in the pure aspect of motivation for Frazier.

Frazier still credits Durham with a 30-second speech which he was replaying in his head even as he entered the arena for his first fight with Ali, undoubtedly the biggest occasion of his career. The quote, which came during camp weeks before the fight, was something along the lines of, "This is it, Joe. This is where God judges you. Lose this fight, & they'll be saying you were just a seat-warmer for Clay, & always were."

Frazier said he lived & breathed that quote, he fed on it, it drove him.

Durham had huge influence on Frazier. I actually went with Arcel in this poll, at any point. He improved Duran, & for a fighter firstly so talented, & secondly so recklessly aggressive in his early LW days, that takes enormous know-how, patience, & expertise --- the kind only working with impresarios like Jack Dempsey & Benny Leonard can afford you. To say nothing of Duran's weight issues he was repeatedly distracted with.

Arcel for me, but Futch is beyond reproach in his own right.

Great post WBY!

[NChristo]

Arcel for me and it's scary to that although he trained 20 Champions and many ATGs / HOFs we still missed a lot of years from him because of the lead pipe event in 53', 20 or so years out of boxing for him to come back and train Duran (Although Freddie Brown demands just as much respect for training him) among others is just phenomenal.

[Wild Blue Yonda]

Great post WBY!

Thanking you.