Calzaghe vs Dawson at 175 lbs

[RubenSonny]

Wats dis Hopkins-nuthuggery, its skullduggery! Just my little rap.

Just waiting for the reset.........

[Pastrano]

Just waiting for the reset.........

I'll take it as a compliment. You know, in my early adolescence, I was something of a poet.

[Toney616]

Okay then, but I'm still gonna do it my way .

Whats the point of evaluating someones resume if you are going to use such a subjective criteria?

since it still wouldn't change what happened in the ring a fighter makes themselves great, not judges.

Have to disagree with you there. If the Judges aren't giving you the fights which would define your greatness, how do you become great? A fighter becomes great by beating great fighters. The only fighter on Hopkins resume who I would define as great is Jones and he lost that fight.

I call it controversial because many people thought Hopkins deserved the nod,

What about the people who disagree with you, dont they count?

being that your best win is controversial doesn't say much for your resume, especially when it was against an old man. I couldn't give a **** about dirty fighting..

You don't care about the fact that he used dirty fighting to stay in the fight? You don't care about the judges, the hbo commentators, or the fact that the crowd agreed with the decision?
Can't you see how biased you are being here?

You have no problem believing Leow because you hate Hopkins.

I said he was the heavier man come fight night and he was. I never said I believed 100% what Jack says, but I wouldnt rule it out.
According to the HBO scale he was 9 lbs heavier than Pavlik, so he was still the naturally bigger man

As for Hopkins, why should I like a fighter that is so dirty? Go and watch the Hopkins-Holmes fight. Disgusting. Holmes was fouled out of his belt

and my point about being old man weight still stands, but you will just ignore that

How does it?
He would hook up with Mackie Shilstone to put on 10 lbs off muscle and become a full blown lhw. What has age got to do with him him being the naturally heavier man? Dude made his pro debut at cw

It doesn't matter if you think its a big difference or not, lets just say he was 160, those numbers wouldn't truly represent the size difference if you don't consider the age of Marquez.

What has jmm age got to do with anything? Not all fighters can move up as succesfully as others. Jmm had no business fighting that high at any stage of his career.

Conjecture..

You said something like the guys that Taylor lost are better than any guy on Calzaghes resume, isnt that conjecture as well?
Kessler beat Froch which is a fact, not conjecture

[Toney616]

Tito can be considered elite

Based on what criteria? He beat Joppy, who was nothing special, lost by shut out to Hopkins. Beat washed up Mayorga and lost by shut out to Winky wright.
Tito's resume at mw:
Best wins:
Joppy(b)
Cherifi(b-)
Mayorga(b-)
Losses:
Hopkins(a)
Winky(b+)
Dudes B+ at mw, world class but not elite

throw in the fact that Eubank wasn't ranked, Hopkins beat way more top 10 ranked competition and Hopkins age we have a landslide

What does it mean to beat top contenders in a barren wasteland? The fact that most of the guys Hopkins fought at mw were either fringe contenders or journeyman shoudl tell you a lot about the state of the mw division.

John David Jackson was koed by Castro and would go on to lose to a journeyman with a record of 9-6. After that he was made Hopkins top contender
Carl Daniels hadnt fought in a year and to the best of my knowledge wasnt a mandatory
Hakkar was terrible and non of the networks wanted to touch that crap
Mercado never beat a fighter above b- level and his claim to fame is that he got ktfo by Liles in four rounds
Gilbert Baptist the punching probation officer
Bo James the washed up fireman

Are these the top contenders you are talking about?

Being a cherry picker doesn't have anything to do with anything, i go by who he beat. The rest is just reaching..

It has everything to do with it. Look at his resume and you will notice that most of his BIG wins are over guys who are much smaller than him. Guys who dont really have the strength to hurt him and he can push them around

After beating Tito Hopkins would sign a contract with King which guarenteed him at least a million dollars no matter who he faced. It was the reason he stabbed Dibella in the back to make sure the deal went through.
Everytime a fight with a fighter Bigger than himself was offered to him he would moan about King and price himself out, while calling out the little guys. What kind of great fighter behaves like this?

Playing dumb......

I like James toney his my favourite fighter. As far as Im concerned he beat Jones. I dont care what the judges, the hbo team or any one else says about it.

Then don't make it a poll and let people discuss it, I guarantee that every respectable poster will argue for Hopkins without a shadow of a doubt.

Both of their resumes are overated. Calzaghes mostly beat unknown euros and Hopkins best wins are over the little guys

[StarshipTrooper]

A fighter becomes great by beating great fighters.

A fighter becomes great by beating good fighters. Most of the greats seldom had the opportunity to face another in-prime great. Beating a great who's past it is no more impressive than beating your typical fringe contender: It's just a name at that point.

As for Hopkins, why should I like a fighter that is so dirty? Go and watch the Hopkins-Holmes fight. Disgusting. Holmes was fouled out of his belt

Plenty of greats has used "questionable" tactics. Duran was dirty as **** (watch footage of him lacing Davy Moore's eyes). Tyson was a ****** fighter and refs looked the other way because he was Don King's mealticket. Same thing with Chavez. Hell, watch footage of the Pep - Saddler fights: Those were foul-fests that I doubt will be equaled.

Poet

[RubenSonny]

Whats the point of evaluating someones resume if you are going to use such a subjective criteria?

Already explained, I'm sure you think Chavez earned a draw with Whitaker...

Have to disagree with you there. If the Judges aren't giving you the fights which would define your greatness, how do you become great? A fighter becomes great by beating great fighters. The only fighter on Hopkins resume who I would define as great is Jones and he lost that fight.

Poet already answered that, your not new to boxing stop playing dumb.

What about the people who disagree with you, dont they count?

Then they can rate it as a win for Calzaghe thats fine by me.

You don't care about the fact that he used dirty fighting to stay in the fight?

Yes I don't care, my favourite fighter is pretty dirty anyway and poet already answered that well.

You don't care about the judges, the hbo commentators, or the fact that the crowd agreed with the decision?

If your being serious your clearly a noob.

Can't you see how biased you are being here?

Nope your a known Hopkins hater when comparing resumes with Pacquiao you claimed the Margarito win was great shows how much you reach to discredit Hopkins.

I said he was the heavier man come fight night and he was. I never said I believed 100% what Jack says, but I wouldnt rule it out.

Because its Hopkins...

As for Hopkins, why should I like a fighter that is so dirty? Go and watch the Hopkins-Holmes fight. Disgusting. Holmes was fouled out of his belt

Your a known hater and will discredit him anytime you can.

How does it?
He would hook up with Mackie Shilstone to put on 10 lbs off muscle and become a full blown lhw. What has age got to do with him him being the naturally heavier man? Dude made his pro debut at cw

Already explained and if you knew anything about boxing you know that you start putting on useless weight when you get older, who you thinks bigger J Tapia or Brandon Rios.

What has jmm age got to do with anything? Not all fighters can move up as succesfully as others. Jmm had no business fighting that high at any stage of his career.

Because he has been known to weigh at about WW on fightnight since hes got old, its pretty simple.

You said something like the guys that Taylor lost are better than any guy on Calzaghes resume, isnt that conjecture as well?
Kessler beat Froch which is a fact, not conjecture

I said Taylor was better than anyone Calzaghe beat not named Hopkins, I'd say Kessler is arguable.

[RubenSonny]

Based on what criteria? He beat Joppy, who was nothing special, lost by shut out to Hopkins. Beat washed up Mayorga and lost by shut out to Winky wright.
Tito's resume at mw:
Best wins:
Joppy(b)
Cherifi(b-)
Mayorga(b-)
Losses:
Hopkins(a)
Winky(b+)
Dudes B+ at mw, world class but not elite

Based on the fact that he was considered by most as oone of the elite fighters in the world, most experts thought he'd beat Hopkins, instead he got bsolutely dominated. Pryor beat an elite fighter in Arguello.

What does it mean to beat top contenders in a barren wasteland? The fact that most of the guys Hopkins fought at mw were either fringe contenders or journeyman shoudl tell you a lot about the state of the mw division.

What he did there was still better than Joes fraudulent run at 168, any objective fan can see that.

John David Jackson was koed by Castro and would go on to lose to a journeyman with a record of 9-6. After that he was made Hopkins top contender
Carl Daniels hadnt fought in a year and to the best of my knowledge wasnt a mandatory
Hakkar was terrible and non of the networks wanted to touch that crap
Mercado never beat a fighter above b- level and his claim to fame is that he got ktfo by Liles in four rounds
Gilbert Baptist the punching probation officer
Bo James the washed up fireman

Are these the top contenders you are talking about?

Nope are listed them earlier in the thread, have a look, its clear what a hater you are when it comes to Hopkins.

It has everything to do with it. Look at his resume and you will notice that most of his BIG wins are over guys who are much smaller than him. Guys who dont really have the strength to hurt him and he can push them around

His resume is greater than Calzaghes without a doubt.

After beating Tito Hopkins would sign a contract with King which guarenteed him at least a million dollars no matter who he faced. It was the reason he stabbed Dibella in the back to make sure the deal went through.
Everytime a fight with a fighter Bigger than himself was offered to him he would moan about King and price himself out, while calling out the little guys. What kind of great fighter behaves like this?

Exposing yourself further, you were never serious about making comparisons with Calzaghe just to **** on Hopkins.

I like James toney his my favourite fighter. As far as Im concerned he beat Jones. I dont care what the judges, the hbo team or any one else says about it.

You say Hopkins is a cheater loooooooooooool, that is just being silly since anyone with eyes can see that Jones dominated him.

Both of their resumes are overated. Calzaghes mostly beat unknown euros and Hopkins best wins are over the little guys

Yup this is your only mention of Calzaghes resume, anyone with decent reading comprehension can see your agenda, funny thing is I'm not eeven a huge fan of Hopkins.

[RubenSonny]

A fighter becomes great by beating good fighters. Most of the greats seldom had the opportunity to face another in-prime great. Beating a great who's past it is no more impressive than beating your typical fringe contender: It's just a name at that point.




Plenty of greats has used "questionable" tactics. Duran was dirty as **** (watch footage of him lacing Davy Moore's eyes). Tyson was a ****** fighter and refs looked the other way because he was Don King's mealticket. Same thing with Chavez. Hell, watch footage of the Pep - Saddler fights: Those were foul-fests that I doubt will be equaled.

Poet

Couldn't have said it better myself.

[.G.]

It just means the only peeps voting for Calslappy are nuthugging Brits.

Poet

same with hopkins but with fat yanks

[Toney616]

A fighter becomes great by beating good fighters.

I'm going to have to disgree with you there. He needs to have some wins over at least a couple of fighters who are either: atgs/hofers or at least classed as elite when he faced them. Or as a minimum a lot of guys who are at least grade b+ fighters. Out of interest what Hopkins wins do you highly rate?

Most of the greats seldom had the opportunity to face another in-prime great. Beating a great who's past it is no more impressive than beating your typical fringe contender: It's just a name at that point.

Hopkins had a chance to fight Jones when the fight meant something
Plenty of greats has used "questionable" tactics. Duran was dirty as **** (watch footage of him lacing Davy Moore's eyes). Tyson was a ****** fighter and refs looked the other way because he was Don King's mealticket. Same thing with Chavez. Hell, watch footage of the Pep - Saddler fights: Those were foul-fests that I doubt will be equaled.
Poet

I turned off Tyson after the Ruddock fights. I thought the Moore fight was disgusting and should of got stopped, way before it did. The Pep fights make me laugh though, especially the judo throw that Pep did.