Calzaghe vs Dawson at 175 lbs

[jermainerambo]

Then why did he Glenn duck 3x??????? 1 excuse is fine. Maybe you can live with a 2nd. But a 3rd time??? Now thats some straight pussay *****.

Have never seen Calzaghe adjust in any fight. He just swarms you with uncomfortable slaps to win decisions.

man who the **** is glen johnson 14 loses 2 draws won 2 championship fight 1 was against the ****ty roy jones


has no fighters just a bunch of country music loving Hillbillies
yeah you're a black Hillbilly

[Alec900]

Try reading the post I was responding to:

I know.just pointed out.I should've replied the original post

[RubenSonny]

And he is 1-2 against Tarver, which means at that stage of their careers Tarver is the better fighter.

Thats not relevant to what we have been discussing.

Calzaghe is NOT a ATG I completely agree with that, but neither is Hopkins

Mercado, Vanderpool, Daniels and Eastman were all journeyman
Lipsey was a green contender with an asthma condition, he retired after the Hopkins loss
Echols and Allen were fringe contenders and never achieved anything at mw

They were all top ten and theres nothing you can do about that, Joe didn't fight that many fighters on that kinda level, he was fighting fresh cans for the picking, either way it adds to Hopkins MW run.

You can't do that. You can only work with the official judging, other wise I can say well I like so and so, so all of his losses are really wins.

During their 12 round fight Hopkins was holding 10+ times per round, consistently headbutting, hitting on the breaks and overacting and you think it was a controversial loss? Hopkins should of got Dqed. Goldenboy obviously pulled strings to get Jay Nady replaced with fair but biased Cortez

Your contradicting yourself here....

It was scored a draw and we can only use the official rulings.

You said you thought Tarver deserved to win the 1st Jones fight IIRC, why mention that then?

Pavik at fight night was around 171 lbs, according to the HBO weigh in Hopkins was 180 lbs. But according to Jack Leow Hopkins was really 187 lbs come fight night

How would he know? He would have every reason to make that up, if Naz had said that Pavlik really weighed 190, it shouldn't be mentioned, thats weak conjecture.

Pavlik was never a top fighter, he is way too 1 dimensional to be classed as an elite fighter. He is a 1d come forward puncher, literally tailor made for a defensive minded counter-puncher, like Hopkins.

Still a good win especially when in relation to Calzaghes sham of a career.

Taylor was never a top fighter, but he did have the potential to be one. Taylor's record before he retired:
Pavlik: ko loss
Pavilk: ud loss
Lacy: ud win
Froch: ko loss
Abraham: ko loss
Dude went 1-4 in his last 5 fights, including the Pavlik losses. He was clearly a fighter on the slide and Abraham is a club fighter

He was better than anyone Calzaghe beat not named Hopkins....

He has been cherry picking his opponents since Howard Eastman.

Calzaghe has been cherrypicking opponents since Paul Hanlon

Moore in his forties was fighting top contenders at hw, not calling out jmws and former wws

Hopkins won the real LHW championship at age 41 or something and deserved to have it at age 45, thats a huge achievement whether you like it or not.

The Ring belt isn't really a belt, seeing as how you don't have to fight your no 2. Think Dawson who was ranked no 2 after Hopkins

You still have to be a top 2 contender and face the other to get it, its greater than the ****ty paper belts, how long did it take Calzaghe to become the ring champ again?

[Toney616]

Thats not relevant to what we have been discussing.

I'll try again
In 2000 Tarver became his mandatory, so Jones wrote letters to the ibf questioning Tarver's attributes as a mandatory and demanding that Tarver take part in a elimination bout. The ibf relented and Tarver was forced to face Harding and lost.

In 2002 Tarver became his mandatory again, Jones could of fought him instead of Woods or Kelly. Instead he fights those guys then goes to hw.

In 2003 after beating Ruiz Jones would call Griffin and promise him a rematch if he beats Tarver. Griffin of course loses.

After beating Ruiz Jones's mandatory would be Vitali K. Don King speaking exclusively for the wba would tell Vitali that he isn't really Jones mandatory and that he has to take part in an eliminator bout. Vitali refuses vacates his spot and goes to fight Lewis instead. Tua is the wba no2 and starts to demand his shot, Jones has two choices stay at hw and face Tua or move down and face Tarver


ps: Im going to answer your post in parts

[Toney616]

They were all top ten and theres nothing you can do about that, Joe didn't fight that many fighters on that kinda level, he was fighting fresh cans for the picking, either way it adds to Hopkins MW run.

You have said in previous post that you don't put much faith is rankings, but you are now doing it here?

Either way the mw division has been a barren wasteland since around 94, which explains why journeyman like Mercado became so highly ranked.
Ill give an example neither hbo or showtime wanted Hopkins-Hakkar because it was seen as a mismatch and it was. The fact that Hakkar was his no 1 mandatory doesnt change that fact.

In order to keep hold of a sanctioning body belt you have to face your no 1 mandatorys or get stripped. The fact that Calzaghe wasn't stripped means he was fighting his.

[RubenSonny]

I'll try again
In 2000 Tarver became his mandatory, so Jones wrote letters to the ibf questioning Tarver's attributes as a mandatory and demanding that Tarver take part in a elimination bout. The ibf relented and Tarver was forced to face Harding and lost.

In 2002 Tarver became his mandatory again, Jones could of fought him instead of Woods or Kelly. Instead he fights those guys then goes to hw.

In 2003 after beating Ruiz Jones would call Griffin and promise him a rematch if he beats Tarver. Griffin of course loses.

After beating Ruiz Jones's mandatory would be Vitali K. Don King speaking exclusively for the wba would tell Vitali that he isn't really Jones mandatory and that he has to take part in an eliminator bout. Vitali refuses vacates his spot and goes to fight Lewis instead. Tua is the wba no2 and starts to demand his shot, Jones has two choices stay at hw and face Tua or move down and face Tarver


ps: Im going to answer your post in parts

Yes but him winning or losing against Tarver isn't relevant.

You have said in previous post that you don't put much faith is rankings, but you are now doing it here?

Either way the mw division has been a barren wasteland since around 94, which explains why journeyman like Mercado became so highly ranked.
Ill give an example neither hbo or showtime wanted Hopkins-Hakkar because it was seen as a mismatch and it was. The fact that Hakkar was his no 1 mandatory doesnt change that fact.

In order to keep hold of a sanctioning body belt you have to face your no 1 mandatorys or get stripped. The fact that Calzaghe wasn't stripped means he was fighting his.

I have some faith in ring rankings, not any of the sanctioning bodies,all were in the ring top 10, the fighters Calzaghe were fighting were absolute ****e, Hopkins run at middleweight is without a doubt greater than Calzaghe run at 168.

[Toney616]

Your contradicting yourself here....

Not really. If I was to evaluate Tarver's resume I would only list his two wins over Jones. I would just state that the loss doesn't hurt him (for reasons stated), but it would still be classed as a loss

You said you thought Tarver deserved to win the 1st Jones fight IIRC, why mention that then?

True. But I still cant give it to him.

How would he know? He would have every reason to make that up, if Naz had said that Pavlik really weighed 190, it shouldn't be mentioned, thats weak conjecture.

Hopkins fight night weight against Tarver was listed as 182 lbs
He refused to take the unofficial weigh in against Calzaghe, and he was clearly bigger and stronger than Calzaghe (see round 4 Hopkins-Calzaghe)

Also
********boxing:

And I think the 170 pound weight limit may have helped Hopkins to be the stronger man as BHOP walks around at over 190 these days while Pavlik usually fights at 160 and doesn’t walk around much over 170.

http://www.ea$tsideboxing.com/boxing/Pavlik-Hopkins.php

Fight Hype:

The biggest edge for Hopkins was size. Pavlik's handlers maintain Hopkins was just too big. "First of all, we shouldn't be fighting at 180 pounds," Pavlik's trainer Jack Loew said. "Bernard was 187 pounds that night. Kelly is a legitimate middleweight. We weighed in on the scale at 169-169 1/2 and after 28 hours of rehydrating, we were 171 1/2 the night of the fight.

http://www.fighthype.com/pages/content4150.html
Thomas Hauser has also stated that HBO on occasion has deliberately understated fighters fight night weights. Tarver was heavier than stated against Jones for example

For Hopkins-Pavlik, Hopkins was reported to be 180 lbs come fight night and Pavlik at 171 lbs. Either way he was the bigger man

[Toney616]

Still a good win especially when in relation to Calzaghes sham of a career.

Its a good win, but not the great legacy enhancing win that its made out to be. Is Calazaghe's resume a mess? Yes it is

He was better than anyone Calzaghe beat not named Hopkins....

I can't see Kessler getting koed by the like of Abraham or Froch. Even the over the hill Eubank he beat wouldnt get koed by any of those guys

Calzaghe has been cherrypicking opponents since Paul Hanlon

lol
He was facing his mandos like Hopkins, and like Hopkins his mandos weren't very good

Hopkins won the real LHW championship at age 41 or something and deserved to have it at age 45, thats a huge achievement whether you like it or not.

Hopkins original choice of opponent was over the hill Jones, that fell through so he decided to fight Tarver. Solid win? No doubt. Hopkins won every single round, proving he was the much better fighter. Calzaghe in turn beat him.
I had him losing Hopkins-Calzaghe, so we are going to have to disagree on him deserving to have it at 45

[Toney616]

You still have to be a top 2 contender and face the other to get it, its greater than the ****ty paper belts

True. After Hopkins beat Tarver he was the nabf and IBO champion, he vacated those two belts (god forbid he had to face lhws), kept the Ring which has no mandatorys and then started playing move up with the little guys. Dude, wouldnt go any where near another live lhw until he faced Pascal. During that time he completely ignored Dawson.

how long did it take Calzaghe to become the ring champ again?

Not sure when it happened at smw, but he of course beat Hopkins to get the ring lhw strap

[Toney616]

Yes but him winning or losing against Tarver isn't relevant.

He had two choices and he took the lower risk one, which was against a guy he didn't really want to face. So yes, he faced the best version of Tarver, but it was more a reluctant challenge than a challenge he actively pursued.
Either way it was still a duck to write those letters, something he shouldnt have done. Especially when he was facing guys like Kelly the sanitation worker or my boy,Frazier (HBO could of least let Frazier take his gun into the ring)

I have some faith in ring rankings, not any of the sanctioning bodies,all were in the ring top 10, the fighters Calzaghe were fighting were absolute ****e,

But its still relative, just because you are ranked by the ring, doesnt make you a top fighter. Frazier and Brannon were ranked within the ring top 10.

Nunn was also ranked within the ring top ten at smw and lhw

Hopkins run at middleweight is without a doubt greater than Calzaghe run at 168.

Your stated that like its some kind of fact. The truth is that the mw and smw divisions they both ruled were barren wastelands. Dude turned down Jones II, Calzaghe and Toney, while calling out Mosley and Mayorga