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For what it's worth, Ali himself said in the immediate aftermath of their third fight, when a reporter said he had the expression of a man who looked as though he'd lost, not won, "Yeah, I lost."
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I did not know this.Originally posted by Wild Blue Yonda View Post
Is there footage or anything of that?Comment
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What Eddie Futch had to say about the Norton-Ali fights
The jab was a big reason Muhammad Ali never figured out why he always had so much trouble with Ken Norton in their three fights. I thought Ken won all three. But he only got the decision in their first fight, the one in San Diego in 1973 when he broke Ali’s jaw. Most people thought that that was the first time they were in the ring together, but a few years earlier they had sparred in Los Angeles when Ali was in exile. What ever city Ali was in he always had his boxing gear in the luggage compartment of his car. Whenever he would step out of his car people would gather. So the day he showed up at the Hoover Street Gym in Los Angeles, the gym filled up. Wall-to-wall people.
Three other heavyweights were working out, Scrap Iron Johnson, Howard Smith and somebody whose name I’ve forgotten. Ali boxed with each of those fellows, then somebody told him I had a young heavyweight, Ken Norton.
Ali didn’t even know Norton’s name. Ali looked at me and said, “How about working a round with your guy?” I said, “Okay.” I took Norton aside and told him, “Don’t” try to be a wise guy. Just be smart. Just go out there and work along with him and try to learn something. If it gets rough in there naturally take care of yourself. But just try to work along with him.” The first round went like that but Norton was never a smooth-looking fighter. He didn’t have a classic style. Ali had looked him over pretty good. I guess he decided the kid can’t fight much. So with this enthusiastic crowd there, Ali decided he’s going to give them a show.
Near the end of the round, Ali stepped back and announced to Norton and the crowd, “Okay, boy, I’m through playing with you. I’m going to put something on you.” Ali really starts punching, but Norton goes right with him. What a round that was, a wild round.
The thing was, Ali didn’t think Norton could counter because Norton had been working along with him earlier. But when Ali started punching harder, Norton countered. Norton embarrassed him, and Ali didn’t expect that. Ali didn’t like that at all. The next day Ali walked into the gym screaming, “I want that Norton, where’s that Norton?” But I had told Norton to stay in his street clothes.
Ali looked over and saw Norton standing around in his street clothes, then he looked at me and said. “Isn’t he going to work today?” I said, “No.” He said, “Why Not?” I said, “Yesterday you came in here looking for a workout. Today you came in here looking for a fight. When this kid fights you he’s going to get paid, and paid well.”
From that one-round workout I had determined that Norton had the style to lick Ali. He just didn’t have experience yet. Norton’s style was perfect. He was strong. He was awkward. And he was tall, as tall as Ali. Then I started putting their two styles together, thinking how Norton could avoid Ali’s strengths, while exploiting Ali’s weaknesses.
Ali made a mistake that he was able to get away with most of the time because of his great reflexes. But it was very dangerous. The classic style is when you jab you carry your right hand high to parry the other fellow’s jab or straight right hand. Ali carried his right hand out to the side because he knew he could get away with it. Ali had that quick left hand that was more of a flick than a good jab. But it was so fast. If you tried to slip his jab and counterpunch he was gone. If you tried to pull away and counterpunch he was gone. If you tried to bob underneath he was gone. What ever you did he was just too quick.
As soon as Norton started training to fight Ali in the San Diego arena, I thought about what had happened in their one round workout in the Hoover Street Gym. I told him, “You’re not going to hit Ali by slipping or pulling back or dropping underneath or parrying. You have to hit him when he’s punching. When he starts to jab, you punch with him. Keep your right hand high. His jab will pop into the middle of your glove and then your jab will come right down the pipe into the middle of his face. Every time he starts to punch, don’t pull back go forward toward him.” That’s what Norton did. That’s what destroyed Ali’s rhythm.
But there was another important factor: where Norton was in the ring when he went forward. I told him, “If you start from the centre of the ring, it’ll take you only three moves to get Ali on the ropes. Every time you jab, step in and make him jab again. Then do the same thing.” With both of them being big heavyweights, I knew if Norton was in the centre of the ring when he countered Ali’s jab, those three moves would back Ali into the ropes.
When he got Ali on the ropes, I told him, “Don’t do like all the other guys do. Don’t throw your hook to the head. He’ll pull back against the ropes and when you’re off balance he’ll pepper you with counterpunches. When he’s on the ropes, instead of going to the head with the left hook, start ****ing his body with both hands. I don’t care whether you land or not. Make him in order to protect his body, bring his elbows down and his head down. That gives you a shot to the head.” Simple. So simple but Ali could never figure it out. What he should’ve done was kept his right hand up high to parry Norton’s jab and countered with another jab. Once he parried Norton’s jab, Norton’s jab would have gone over his shoulder. He could jab right back. He could do anything he wanted, because he had gotten rid of Norton’s jab. But he never did. It was a basic move. But he’d done it the other way for so long he didn’t know how to change.Comment
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Im watching the fight again tonight and ill post up my scorecard tomorrow, with a breakdown off why I scored each round the way I didOriginally posted by boxing boy View PostComment
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I've watched that fight quite a few time and always had it (Ali-Norton 2) 7-5 Ali.Originally posted by IronMike. View PostComment
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I always thought Ken Norton is like JMM, he gave Pac hell. Some people thought JMM won both fights and some thought Norton won all three. IMO I thought JMM beat Pac once (first fight) while Norton beat Ali twice (First and Third). Just a matter of styles that can give the anyone hell.Last edited by Flo_Raiden; 03-10-2011, 09:52 PM.Comment
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I have watched this fight about 20 times.I normaly score it 7-5 for Ali.But a couple of times i scored it 7-4-1 and 6-5-1 for Ali.Most of the rounds that Norton wins are close,very close.While most of the rounds that Ali wins are clearly Ali's rounds.Originally posted by IronMike. View Post
I just watched the fight again,and here are my scoring of the fight.....
1-Ali-Ali moving and dancing.Norton could not hit him.Ali landed some left jabs and a couple of right hands.
2-Ali-Ali still moving and dancing.Norton could not hit him.Ali landed many left jabs.
3-Ali-Same as the 2nd round except Ali landing more clean left jabs.
4-Ali-Norton finally landed a couple clean punches,but Ali dominated the round with alot of left jabs,and a couple of left hooks and right hands.Ali is still moving and dancing very well.
5-EVEN-Norton's best round so far.He's putting on more pressure,landing a couple good punches.While Ali landing a couple good punches too,and sticking him with left jabs.
6-Ali-Ali wins the first minute,second minute even,3rd minute to Ali.Ali hurt Norton in this round.
7-Norton-Ali won 2 1/2 minutes of the round,but Norton had a real good 30 seconds when he landed several hard clean punches.Some appeared to hurt Ali.
8-Norton-Ali won the first 2 1/2 minutes of the round landing some real good clean punches,including a couple hard left hooks.Norton came on strong the last 30 seconds of the round,stealing the round.
9-Norton-Real good round! Ali won 2 minutes of the round and even hurt Norton with a good right hand.Norton came on strong the last minute of the round and both fighters were landing good clean punches!
10-Ali-Ali was moving and dancing while landing alot of left jabs,while Norton not landing much.
11-Norton-Norton's round all the way.
12-Ali-Ali won the first two minutes easily,landing many fast combinations.Norton came on strong the last minute and landed a couple good hard clean punches.
I scored it 7-4-1 for Muhammad Ali.
Remember when scoring a fight that the first minute of a round is as important as the last minute of the round.Norton came on strong in the last minute of the round in many rounds.And this is what the judges "remember" the most,the last minute of the round.But that is not how you are suppossed to score the round,you score all 3 minutes of the round.
This was a pretty good fight,with pretty good action.I think it also shows that a PRIME Muhammad Ali would win a clear UD.Something like 10-5 or 9-6.
Thanks for taking out time to watch and score the fight.I'm very interested in seeing how you score the fight,and why you score it the way you do.Comment
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