In 1993, was there a bigger fight than Lewis vs Bowe?

[JAB5239]

JAB... you are avoiding my queries mate, you have made accusations against me here and now when i call you to answer for them you are running scared.. i have told you i am not interested in your little gang-warfare theory on some British based biased website... so answer my queries or forever hold your tongue mate... don't try to wriggle out of it, i have you beaten and you know it just like i have won every single discussion on this forum which has ever been posted on the subject of LL avoiding the No1 contenders.... you know i will tie-you-in-knots if you answer my queries, so you have reverted to childish playground antics of trying to get a gang onto me, the difference between me and you is that "i don't need no numbers around me, i am a one man gang"

Sonny, when it comes to Lennox Lewis you're as big of a joke as prinzemanspoper was about Frazier on here. You're blind and oblivious to this because your dislike for Lewis is so strong. If you really wanted the truth you wouldn't be afraid to gamble in the court of public opinion. Since you are though I guess this thread is over. Can't say as I blame you though since we both know I would have won.

[JAB5239]

yes you are correct in the public opinion of John Ruiz i accept that... but does that mean that when he fought his way to be No1 contender and is on the threshold of the largest payday in his life he has to be snubbed and refused that opportunity through public opinion

Who did he fight that made him so deserving? We'll put everything else beside us, this is all I want to know.

[sonnyboyx2]

Who did he fight that made him so deserving? We'll put everything else beside us, this is all I want to know.

6 defenses of the NABF Heavyweight Title..a title which has been held by the likes of, Samuel Peter, Hasim Rahman, Wlad Klitschko, Michael Grant, Fres Oquendo, David Tua, Ray Mercer, Tony Tucker, Chris Arreola, Joe Mesi, Bert Cooper...
unbeaten in last 11 fights
beating Tony Tucker, Jimmy Thunder as well as upcoming fighters Ballard, Cawley & Feliz who had a record between them of 56-3....
Lost split-dec verdict for IBO Heavyweight Title (a belt Lewis won and defended)..
in theory John Ruiz was virtually unbeaten other than losing to David Tua in 18 seconds in 1996 getting caught with the first punch of the fight...

JAB... pointless going round in circles we will agree to disagree.... Peace!

[Scott9945]

no hate hear mate... more like ignorance on your part,

1/. Did HBO shout for Lewis vs Botha?
2/. Bowe is a biased source? do you have a link?
3/. Bowe offered Lewis 75/25 not 90/10 like you claim
4/. who wanted Lewis v Ruiz, the WBA did
5/. Ruiz record and quality of opposition are superior to Butler, Jackson, Akinwande, Mavrovic, Botha & Grant who Lewis hand-picked as opponents.
6/. Botha is a known steroid abuser and was unranked
7/. my point is: put up links or evidence because your word is no better than anyone else's word
8/. Your brain is so soaked with hate and disdain for Lewis, you claim.. yet i can label you with the exact opposite as i always did before you became a moderator..
9/. JAB.. your opinion is that ALL governing bodies ratings should be scrapped and The Ring Ratings used: yes/no?
10/. ESB is a fanclub for Lewis... how about Boxing Standard and you got a bet
11/. when did i say nobody wanted to see Lewis vs Bowe? again you are distorting the facts and the truth.. i said Lewis priced himself out of fighting Bowe just like how Bowe claims in the video but you call him biased
12/. Show me a single instance of when i have "Hated on Lewis" or is calling into question a form of Hate in your eyes..
13/. You say TV networks did not want to buy Lewis v Ruiz.... Do those same TV networks buy Vitali & Wlad Klitschko fights ? did they buy Nikolay Valuev fights? did they buy Lewis vs Botha?
14/. Should Chris Byrd as No1 contender have been given a world title fight by Lennox Lewis?
15., The bottom line is you know that Ruiz & Byrd should have been given a world title fight by Lewis but you cannot bring yourself to admit it.

I'm going to respectfully answer some of these questions. For obvious reasons I won't respond to those that are directed to Jab personally:

1) Yes, HBO wanted a TV fight for Lewis between the Grant and Tua PPV's. Obviously HBO appoved the fights.

2) You really don't need a link or much sense to realize that Rid**** Bowe would be biased in any discussion concerning his own career.

3) 75/25 is insulting to a Gold Medalist who just KO'd Ruddock in an elimination fight.

4) The WBA is just another parasitic group who doesn't put up any money to make fights. They are just bottom feeders who the public and the networks don't care about.

5) Jackson and Butler were too long before to be relevant to Ruiz. The Butler fight was an elimination fight. Akinwande was the WBO champion with an outstanding record. Mavrovic was a mandatory. Grant was undefeated and lower odds than Ruiz would ever have been. John Ruiz? Oh yeah, he was KO'd in 19 seconds on HBO. I'm sure he was real high on their list, lol.

6) Nobody cares about steroids, and especially if Botha used them.

13) What is the difference if the network wanted other fights or not. There was no interest in a Ruiz fight. HBO bought the Botha fight because it cost them less than a Ruiz fight.

14) Byrd was a legit contender and would have been a worthy challenger. The fight would have lost money, but perhaps you fail to accept that reality.

[JAB5239]

[QUOTE]

upcoming fighters Ballard, Cawley & Feliz who had a record between them of 56-3....

56-3 seems pretty impressive till you discover their opponents had a combined 773 losses between them.

[sonnyboyx2]

I'm going to respectfully answer some of these questions. For obvious reasons I won't respond to those that are directed to Jab personally:

1) Yes, HBO wanted a TV fight for Lewis between the Grant and Tua PPV's. Obviously HBO appoved the fights.

2) You really don't need a link or much sense to realize that Rid**** Bowe would be biased in any discussion concerning his own career.

3) 75/25 is insulting to a Gold Medalist who just KO'd Ruddock in an elimination fight.

4) The WBA is just another parasitic group who doesn't put up any money to make fights. They are just bottom feeders who the public and the networks don't care about.

5) Jackson and Butler were too long before to be relevant to Ruiz. The Butler fight was an elimination fight. Akinwande was the WBO champion with an outstanding record. Mavrovic was a mandatory. Grant was undefeated and lower odds than Ruiz would ever have been. John Ruiz? Oh yeah, he was KO'd in 19 seconds on HBO. I'm sure he was real high on their list, lol.

6) Nobody cares about steroids, and especially if Botha used them.

13) What is the difference if the network wanted other fights or not. There was no interest in a Ruiz fight. HBO bought the Botha fight because it cost them less than a Ruiz fight.

14) Byrd was a legit contender and would have been a worthy challenger. The fight would have lost money, but perhaps you fail to accept that reality.

i will try to address your pitiful answers to my questions as i notice once again not a single link or piece of evidence from you to be seen, but here goes.

1/.Show me evidence that HBO shouted for Lewis v Botha
2/. Show me another example of Rid**** Bowe being biased
3/. 75/25 is what Bowe received from Holyfield & Holyfield accepted in their rematch, What did Lewis pay Tucker, Bruno, McCall, Tua, Akinwande etc... Bowe was the man who beat the man The undisputed Champion, Lewis was nothing but a paper champion.
4/. The WBA is the Founder governing body in professional boxing and can be traced back to 1921 with the first bout recognized by them being Dempsey v Carpentier...To claim they are unworthy is laughable.
5/. Jackson & Butler are not too long ago, they was opponents at world level of Lewis, Akinwande had a record far worse than John Ruiz and his WBO strap was the belt Rid**** Bowe gave-up as not being worthy to own.
6/. To claim steroids are acceptable in the sport shows your mentality.
7,8,9,10,11 &12 unanswered by you.
13/. Show link to prove there was not interest
14/. So you are also saying Chris Byrd was rightly denied a world title fight because the fight would lose money, yet he has fought in 7 world title fights since?... how many world title fights with the exception of Tyson & Holyfield have the opponents of Lewis fought in compared to John Ruiz & Chris Byrd... which gives a true indicated of their abilities.

[2badshoulders]

The way you put it now 20yrs later it is easy to say it looked the biggest fight yet you are ignoring that Lewis was unknown outside London & Canada

I don't know, I remember Lewis' coming out party on HBO when he knocked Razor Ruddock naked from the waste down. We here in the states took notice, even those who didn't like him. Ruddock had just come off the Tyson fights and was supposed to throttle Lennox.

[sonnyboyx2]

I don't know, I remember Lewis' coming out party on HBO when he knocked Razor Ruddock naked from the waste down. We here in the states took notice, even those who didn't like him. Ruddock had just come off the Tyson fights and was supposed to throttle Lennox.

i was at that fight, Lewis was 10/11 favorite, Ruddock 11/8

[JAB5239]

i will try to address your pitiful answers to my questions as i notice once again not a single link or piece of evidence from you to be seen, but here goes.

1/.Show me evidence that HBO shouted for Lewis v Botha

Where did anyone say they did?

2/. Show me another example of Rid**** Bowe being biased

As Scott already said, it really doesn't take a lot of common sense.

3/. 75/25 is what Bowe received from Holyfield & Holyfield accepted in their rematch, What did Lewis pay Tucker, Bruno, McCall, Tua, Akinwande etc... Bowe was the man who beat the man The undisputed Champion, Lewis was nothing but a paper champion.

90/10 there is your link.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rid****_Bowe

4/. The WBA is the Founder governing body in professional boxing and can be traced back to 1921 with the first bout recognized by them being Dempsey v Carpentier...To claim they are unworthy is laughable.

Everyone of the alphabet soups orgs are corrupt and a complete joke. To turn a blind eye and say otherwise is a disgrace to the sport and as a fan. You should be ashamed.

5/. Jackson & Butler are not too long ago, they was opponents at world level of Lewis, Akinwande had a record far worse than John Ruiz and his WBO strap was the belt Rid**** Bowe gave-up as not being worthy to own.

Lol,more contradictions and double standards. When Bowe gives up a belt its "not worthy".When Lewis ditches it he's ducking Ruiz. Do you really think anybody is buying this load of horse crap?

6/. To claim steroids are acceptable in the sport shows your mentality.

He never said they were acceptable so stop twisting words to suit your agenda. Since we're on the topic though, what exactly was and is boxing doing to curb steroid use?

13/. Show link to prove there was not interest

Show a link there was. Bottom line is nobody was taking Ruiz seriously and King had to pay his way into a ranking. Do you need a link showing where King had done that before?

14/. So you are also saying Chris Byrd was rightly denied a world title fight because the fight would lose money, yet he has fought in 7 world title fights since?... how many world title fights with the exception of Tyson & Holyfield have the opponents of Lewis fought in compared to John Ruiz & Chris Byrd... which gives a true indicated of their abilities.

Sonny, you've been completely and utterly massacred in this thread. Just give it up already. Nobody agrees with you and you're acting a little schitzo by assuming you have all the facts and nobody else has a clue.

[sonnyboyx2]

I'm going to respectfully answer some of these questions. For obvious reasons I won't respond to those that are directed to Jab personally:

1) Yes, HBO wanted a TV fight for Lewis between the Grant and Tua PPV's. Obviously HBO appoved the fights.

2) You really don't need a link or much sense to realize that Rid**** Bowe would be biased in any discussion concerning his own career.

3) 75/25 is insulting to a Gold Medalist who just KO'd Ruddock in an elimination fight.

4) The WBA is just another parasitic group who doesn't put up any money to make fights. They are just bottom feeders who the public and the networks don't care about.

5) Jackson and Butler were too long before to be relevant to Ruiz. The Butler fight was an elimination fight. Akinwande was the WBO champion with an outstanding record. Mavrovic was a mandatory. Grant was undefeated and lower odds than Ruiz would ever have been. John Ruiz? Oh yeah, he was KO'd in 19 seconds on HBO. I'm sure he was real high on their list, lol.

6) Nobody cares about steroids, and especially if Botha used them.

13) What is the difference if the network wanted other fights or not. There was no interest in a Ruiz fight. HBO bought the Botha fight because it cost them less than a Ruiz fight.

14) Byrd was a legit contender and would have been a worthy challenger. The fight would have lost money, but perhaps you fail to accept that reality.

Scott.. Question 4/. if the WBA are bottom-feeders in your opinion, then which governing body or organization should i be looking to as the best in the sport?