What If Gene Tunney Had Not Retired?

[TBear]

Sooner or later they all lose. Often to fighters that should not have beaten them but if they continue it is it is inevitable. The way of the game!

[bklynboy]

Tunney was 30 Years old in 1928. Nearing the downhill period of a regular fighter. But the 1930s had a drop in the true talent of heavyweights, with a few obvious exceptions. Sharkey, Baer, and Schmeling, and Braddock when he was properly trained, would be tough foes. But still, they wouldn't be able to handle even an older Gene. The difference in skill was too great. Sharkey would be outboxed as would Schmeling, Baer would be slapped around the ring, and Braddock would probably be KO'ed. Eventually, Gene would face Joe Louis, at which point, already past his prime, he would be KO'ed and probably vanish from the division. Prime for Prime, Joe beats Tunney. Past prime Tunney could put up a good fight, but would go down much easier.

I can't see Schmeling, Sharkey, Braddock or Baer matching up prime for prime. But I don't think he could have held the title past age 35. He relied on ring knowledge and the reflexes necessary to slip and counter punch. By 1933 he would be getting to old. Could he really have the desire and the reflexes to get past Baer? Maybe. But, upon reflection, I don't think so. Prime Tunney would have no problem with Baer but a 37-38 year old would have.

I think we can safely say that he would have dominated the division for another 2-3 years and his legacy would be much different as a result.

[Wild Blue Yonda]

Always fun to toss around, these, "What If X Hadn't Retired," topics. In this instance, I'm going to side with the majority --- Tunney fends off Schmeling, Sharkey, & anyone else of prominence in the next two or three years following on from his real-world retirement. Baer would be the next major challenge around 1933, & Tunney would be thirty-five at this point. It's interesting...

Tunney was a quick fighter in all facets --- fast hands, swift feet, snappy reflexes. A lesser fighter may've depended heavily on these assets (certainly, many have), but to Tunney, these were just augments to his true strengths...supreme preparation, excellent conditioning, precise punching technique, & a courageous heart. You can add a fantastic chin as well. We can reasonably presume, I think, that these qualities would've remained with someone as famously disciplined as he. Together, would they be enough, in the likely absence of his once-great speed, to see off a hungry, young Baer? I tend to think the answer is no --- Schmeling was not a prime Tunney's equal, but he was a very capable technician not prone to many tactical errors, & Baer showed there he could overcome being frustrated early in a fight to keep his head & come on hard late.

Tunney's above-attributes would make him a live underdog, in spite of his age. He was perhaps cagey enough to still beat Baer, especially an unfocused Baer...however, I think this is the end of the road for him as Champion --- 1933-34, & the challenge of Maxxy Baer. It isn't altogether unreasonable, though, to see him making it as far as Joe Louis in 1936-37. He would have to beat Baer (possible) at some point to do that, & probably defeat either Schmeling or Sharkey a second time, as well as Carnera, Braddock & a few others. Unlikely, but The Fighting Marine was a great, great fighter, & bitterly-determined in his own right (something rarely acknowledged). He'd have a chance to go out at the hands of the young Brown Bomber.

[Kid McCoy]

Tunney was 30 Years old in 1928. Nearing the downhill period of a regular fighter. But the 1930s had a drop in the true talent of heavyweights, with a few obvious exceptions. Sharkey, Baer, and Schmeling, and Braddock when he was properly trained, would be tough foes. But still, they wouldn't be able to handle even an older Gene. The difference in skill was too great. Sharkey would be outboxed as would Schmeling, Baer would be slapped around the ring, and Braddock would probably be KO'ed. Eventually, Gene would face Joe Louis, at which point, already past his prime, he would be KO'ed and probably vanish from the division. Prime for Prime, Joe beats Tunney. Past prime Tunney could put up a good fight, but would go down much easier.

I think you're underselling those fighters. I very much doubt Tunney would KO Braddock. Whatever his limitations Braddock had a cement chin and was only ever knocked out by a prime Joe Louis. Middleweights went the distance with Tunney.

I find Tunney gets overrated as a heavyweight based on looking near-invincible against Dempsey. Tunney's heavyweight resume is an older Dempsey, Tom Heeney and a few light-heavyweights. That's it. That's not enough to persuade me he's going to go through Sharkey, Schmeling, Baer, Carnera, Braddock et al unscathed. He simply doesn't have prime heavyweights of that calibre on his resume. Factor in that Tunney will likely be past his prime fighting younger, hungry heavyweights and it's not hard to imagine one or two of them beating him.

[Joey Giardello]

Baer never had the skills to compete with Tunney, he had the punch but Tunney was good enough to avoid that ever landing

I agree even a just past his prime tunney would box rings round max bear

[Great John L]

I think you're underselling those fighters. I very much doubt Tunney would KO Braddock. Whatever his limitations Braddock had a cement chin and was only ever knocked out by a prime Joe Louis. Middleweights went the distance with Tunney.

I find Tunney gets overrated as a heavyweight based on looking near-invincible against Dempsey. Tunney's heavyweight resume is an older Dempsey, Tom Heeney and a few light-heavyweights. That's it. That's not enough to persuade me he's going to go through Sharkey, Schmeling, Baer, Carnera, Braddock et al unscathed. He simply doesn't have prime heavyweights of that calibre on his resume. Factor in that Tunney will likely be past his prime fighting younger, hungry heavyweights and it's not hard to imagine one or two of them beating him.

But Past Prime Jack Dempsey was better than Schmeling and Sharkey. Braddock I think he'd get stopped late. Braddock was less impressive at heavyweight than Tunney. Baer would give the toughest fight, but I still mhink Tunney stops him. Baer was beaten twice by Nova and lost to Risko and Schaff. I think a past prime Dempsey could still KO Baer. But it's all conjecture..

[louis54]

i would probably bet on tunney to beat almost anyone until he met up with louis. maybe the younger loughran and rosenbloom could have outsped him by a hair as tunney aged.

[Kid McCoy]

But Past Prime Jack Dempsey was better than Schmeling and Sharkey. Braddock I think he'd get stopped late. Braddock was less impressive at heavyweight than Tunney. Baer would give the toughest fight, but I still mhink Tunney stops him. Baer was beaten twice by Nova and lost to Risko and Schaff. I think a past prime Dempsey could still KO Baer. But it's all conjecture..

I'm not so sure about that. Jack was slow and rusty, a great opponent for Tunney to look great against. Sharkey and Schmeling were both excellent boxers and both did ultimately beat better prime heavyweights than Tunney faced. They'd be tricky fights for him, it's not guaranteed he beats them. I agree Tunney was better than Braddock but a 35-ish Tunney against a prime Braddock might tip the balance. Ditto for a big powerful Baer against a fading Tunney. Then there's Carnera who I think is underrated and had some good wins, including over Loughran, a very skillful light-heavy like Tunney.

I'm not saying all those guys would beat Tunney, I'm just more skeptical about his heavyweight credentials and what with battling age and numerous tough contenders, I find it hard to imagine him still being champion in 1937.

[StarshipTrooper]

I'm not so sure about that. Jack was slow and rusty, a great opponent for Tunney to look great against. Sharkey and Schmeling were both excellent boxers and both did ultimately beat better prime heavyweights than Tunney faced. They'd be tricky fights for him, it's not guaranteed he beats them. I agree Tunney was better than Braddock but a 35-ish Tunney against a prime Braddock might tip the balance. Ditto for a big powerful Baer against a fading Tunney. Then there's Carnera who I think is underrated and had some good wins, including over Loughran, a very skillful light-heavy like Tunney.

I'm not saying all those guys would beat Tunney, I'm just more skeptical about his heavyweight credentials and what with battling age and numerous tough contenders, I find it hard to imagine him still being champion in 1937.

Agreed. I could easily see Schmeling out boxing a Tunney who's reflexes were on the slide. With Sharkey and Baer it just depends on which one of them showed up: Both were known for their up and down performances.

Poet

[GJC]

Schmelling was a very good fighter, prime for prime I'd put my money on Tunney but I think he'd have had a couple more years and then would have struggled 35 in those days was like 50 now! Schmelling I think would have been the one to unseat an aging Tunney
Baer would have had a puncher chance against a slow Tunney but before Louis itwas a pretty poor crop so really age would have been Tunney's biggest opponent.