Mike Tyson vs Joe Louis

[ROSS CALIFORNIA]

Personally, I have never accepted that Tyson was, "past his prime," when he fought Douglas. That is completely revisionist, no one breathed a word of it at the time, & the evidence for that standpoint is pretty shaky.

I don't have any qualms with someone stating Tyson was below par for his fight with Douglas, but past his best? That's stretching it beyond reason to protect his image.

I'd say past his best because of the guys he was with. I doubt they trained him and knew him as well as Rooney. When he fired Rooney, he lost a lot. Rooney made him listen. Rooney didn't kiss his ass. I can't help but think these guys Aaron Snow and Jay Bright, didn't have the authority over Tyson that Rooney did. They were lucky to be his trainers, if they get too bossy he might replace them. Tyson wanted to call the shots. Everything was getting to his head and he felt he knew what was right but he didn't. He had no idea he made the biggest mistake he ever could have made. You could see he was fighting lazy. It takes work to keep your head moving but he was getting away from that. He wasn't throwing combo's as much and loading up on shots more than ever. Rooney kept him from going that direction, that's why he was past his best by the time he got to Douglas. He was physically young enough and strong enough to do what he did before, but he didn't choose to. Its not like a fighter getting old, it was all his fault. And at the time people did question whether Team Tyson was the right choice for Mike. Larry Merchant said "he hasn't been doing well without Keven Rooney" after the Douglas fight. Sometimes it takes an extra bad performance to see the fighter isn't doing well. A lot of people would look at the Bruno and Williams fight and say he looks no different, but both ended in KO's, that's deceptive in its self. Tyson still had the power and skills to look good but he was on a downward spiral that ended in Japan. People will see what they want, I'm just putting my opinion out there.

[ROSS CALIFORNIA]

I have been looking at more Louis video here is some clear footage of ko highlights. There are many 1 punch ko's and I like the 5 punch combination at about 1:15 and the hard short fast right at about 2:15.

Louis was fkn amazing! Thats a very good video. Here's a good one for Tyson except the picture quality isn't all that great.

[Great John L]

I believe Joe Louis wins. He may get knocked down ocne or twice, ut he'll get up. Joe is always kocked on for his chin. I don't necessarily think he had a bad chn". Not cast iron like Ali or George Chuvalo's but every time Joe was down, except in the fights he lost to Schmeling and Rocky by KO, he was up in 2-3 seconds. Blackburn used to get pissed at Joe for not taking a proper count. I tend to favor the smarter, calmer fighter in these types of match ups. Joe was the perfect textbook fighter. Every punch was just right for the combination he was about to unload, and of course he had frightening handspeed. Joe only needs 1 moment and when he gets it, nobody is safe from a knockout. This has been proven throughout the years when he was behind (Billy Conn I and Jersey Joe Walcott II). I think Joe was just alla round more complete and sharper and mor effective with his unches, mroe conservative with his movements. I don't believe that there is a large power dispaity between the two. Speed of hand, Joe. Speed of head/body Tyson. I think after 8-10 rounds Joe will have worn Mike down with sharpshooting, gone in for the kill and knocked him out.

[Wild Blue Yonda]

I'd say past his best because of the guys he was with. I doubt they trained him and knew him as well as Rooney. When he fired Rooney, he lost a lot. Rooney made him listen. Rooney didn't kiss his ass. I can't help but think these guys Aaron Snow and Jay Bright, didn't have the authority over Tyson that Rooney did. They were lucky to be his trainers, if they get too bossy he might replace them. Tyson wanted to call the shots. Everything was getting to his head and he felt he knew what was right but he didn't. He had no idea he made the biggest mistake he ever could have made. You could see he was fighting lazy. It takes work to keep your head moving but he was getting away from that. He wasn't throwing combo's as much and loading up on shots more than ever. Rooney kept him from going that direction, that's why he was past his best by the time he got to Douglas. He was physically young enough and strong enough to do what he did before, but he didn't choose to. Its not like a fighter getting old, it was all his fault. And at the time people did question whether Team Tyson was the right choice for Mike. Larry Merchant said "he hasn't been doing well without Keven Rooney" after the Douglas fight. Sometimes it takes an extra bad performance to see the fighter isn't doing well. A lot of people would look at the Bruno and Williams fight and say he looks no different, but both ended in KO's, that's deceptive in its self. Tyson still had the power and skills to look good but he was on a downward spiral that ended in Japan. People will see what they want, I'm just putting my opinion out there.

I understand the argument, & the sentiment. I just do not buy it, simply. He was in his prime.

[CarlosG815]

I understand the argument, & the sentiment. I just do not buy it, simply. He was in his prime.

I agree he was "prime" but he was not "the same fighter." He was not "at his best." He did not fight the same way and this can not be debated as it is clear to see on film. Watch any fight after Rooney and it's clear to see a difference. It took him 5 rounds to take out Frank Bruno and he looked awful in that fight.

[The_Demon]

I believe Joe Louis wins. He may get knocked down ocne or twice, ut he'll get up. Joe is always kocked on for his chin. I don't necessarily think he had a bad chn". Not cast iron like Ali or George Chuvalo's but every time Joe was down, except in the fights he lost to Schmeling and Rocky by KO, he was up in 2-3 seconds. Blackburn used to get pissed at Joe for not taking a proper count. I tend to favor the smarter, calmer fighter in these types of match ups. Joe was the perfect textbook fighter. Every punch was just right for the combination he was about to unload, and of course he had frightening handspeed. Joe only needs 1 moment and when he gets it, nobody is safe from a knockout. This has been proven throughout the years when he was behind (Billy Conn I and Jersey Joe Walcott II). I think Joe was just alla round more complete and sharper and mor effective with his unches, mroe conservative with his movements. I don't believe that there is a large power dispaity between the two. Speed of hand, Joe. Speed of head/body Tyson. I think after 8-10 rounds Joe will have worn Mike down with sharpshooting, gone in for the kill and knocked him out.

Great post green k sent

[Holtol]

Louis was fkn amazing! Thats a very good video. Here's a good one for Tyson except the picture quality isn't all that great.

Good video showing Tyson's punching ability. Have not seen some of those ko's in a long time. I think maybe Louis had more one punch ko's but I am not sure. I think Tyson was very good I think he would stand a good chance against Lewis, Wlad, Vitali in his prime. Holyfeild and Bowe I think would be tough fights for him. Guys like Ali and Louis and some others would have stood a good chance of beating him I believe.

[CarlosG815]

Good video showing Tyson's punching ability. Have not seen some of those ko's in a long time. I think maybe Louis had more one punch ko's but I am not sure. I think Tyson was very good I think he would stand a good chance against Lewis, Wlad, Vitali in his prime. Holyfeild and Bowe I think would be tough fights for him. Guys like Ali and Louis and some others would have stood a good chance of beating him I believe.

Tyson would murder The K bro's and Lewis in his prime.

Rid**** Bowe would be a very tough fight for him at any point in his career.

[Holtol]

Tyson would murder The K bro's and Lewis in his prime.

Rid**** Bowe would be a very tough fight for him at any point in his career.

True, Lewis was not very good against pressure. Even a guy like Shannon Briggs forced him to turn his back and run away.

[Joeyzagz]

Power: Joe Louis
Speed: Tyson
Defense: Tyson
Accuracy: Joe Louis
Skill: Joe Louis
Stamina: Joe Louis
Height: Joe Louis
Reach: Joe Louis
Weight: Even
Heart: Joe Louis

Joe Louis should stay cautious for 4 rounds, Demoralize Tyson in the 5th and sixth, and finish him in the 7th.