Ducking beyond reasonable doubt

[BattlingNelson]

ironic you should say that

you have been bashing Bute for ''ducking'' Pascal

strangely enough, to Bute, Pascal is ''in another weight class''

I can see you from here replying that Bute started his pro career as a light heavyweight or that 168 is closer to 175 than 147 is to 160, but bottom line is, you just said it yourself, ''how can you duck a guy in another weightclass?''

You know very well what happened. Normally it's not possible to duck fighters from another weightclass and the fact that Bute turned Pascal down citing weight was perfectly legit. The story didn't end there though as Bute already next week was in negotiations for a fight with Danny Green who's a cruiserweight.

In that light its very difficult not to consider this a duck on Bute's behalf and it is even worse when you consider the magnitude of that showdown. Canada would have been on electric. So instead of this mouthwatering fight we will just see Bute continue to square off against clubfighters ala Brinkley.


Sidenote: Why cant you deliver a point without the childstuff? This is the history forum. Not NSB.

[Joeyzagz]

funny how you have twisted and misconstrued the video so as to fit your pathetic agenda... it is well known now that the Lewis v Bowe Olympic final was the most blatant robbery in Olympic Heavyweight history with Bowe receiving 14 warnings in the opening round by the referee and the fight bazaarly stopped in the 2nd round... Then you have Bowe dumping his WBC belt in the garbage can due to his dissagreement with that organization yet you have twisted it to mean he was ducking Lewis which cannot be further from the truth..here is a link to the truth of the matter

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y0eins2DhSo

Actions speak louder than words. I look at what Bowe DID and how he behaved when he was clear-minded in his prime; He ducked Lennox on national television. That punch-drunk shell on youtube is trying to salvage a legacy with words..wont erase the shameful press conference.

Bowe's legs were turned to jelly with just two shots from Lennox, and this is through head gear. Why would Bowe risk a fight in the pros? It would be suicide for him, so he faced the relatively harmless Holyfield instead.

[Tiozzo]

You know very well what happened. Normally it's not possible to duck fighters from another weightclass and the fact that Bute turned Pascal down citing weight was perfectly legit. The story didn't end there though as Bute already next week was in negotiations for a fight with Danny Green who's a cruiserweight.

In that light its very difficult not to consider this a duck on Bute's behalf and it is even worse when you consider the magnitude of that showdown. Canada would have been on electric. So instead of this mouthwatering fight we will just see Bute continue to square off against clubfighters ala Brinkley.


Sidenote: Why cant you deliver a point without the childstuff? This is the history forum. Not NSB.

Bute won't be fighting club fighters ala Brinkley for a while, he hasn't signed a deal with the best network to be a super middleweight for nothing

as for Green, I believe it has become clear now that they just lightly threw his name out there without evaluating the consequences because they were havig a tough time securing a credible opponent

it has become clear that they never really entertained the thought of fighting Green, plan from day 1 was to stay at 168 and fight the man to come out on top of the Super X

it's like Hopkins when he said he would fight Bute : he wasn't interested at all, he did that to sound interested in a tough fight, but he obviously never had any intention to fight him

things would be different if Bute actually had gotten involved in negociations with anybody north of 168, but that hasn't happened

with Bute staying at 168 for a while and looking to become the lineal champion, it is not relevant anymore to call the fact that he turned down Pascal a ''duck''

anyway, the fight will happen down the line, probably in 2012

as for the childish stuff, here, these are your favorite

[BattlingNelson]

Bute won't be fighting club fighters ala Brinkley for a while, he hasn't signed a deal with the best network to be a super middleweight for nothing

as for Green, I believe it has become clear now that they just lightly threw his name out there without evaluating the consequences because they were havig a tough time securing a credible opponent

it has become clear that they never really entertained the thought of fighting Green, plan from day 1 was to stay at 168 and fight the man to come out on top of the Super X

it's like Hopkins when he said he would fight Bute : he wasn't interested at all, he did that to sound interested in a tough fight, but he obviously never had any intention to fight him

things would be different if Bute actually had gotten involved in negociations with anybody north of 168, but that hasn't happened

with Bute staying at 168 for a while and looking to become the lineal champion, it is not relevant anymore to call the fact that he turned down Pascal a ''duck''

anyway, the fight will happen down the line, probably in 2012

as for the childish stuff, here, these are your favorite

I wouldn't be surprised if Bute fought Mendy or Stevens next.

[Great John L]

If the drawing of the "color line" in the late 1800s abd early 1900s can be considered ducking than without doubt many of the great black fighters Langford, Jeanette, Martin, Mcvey, were dodged only for skin color, and becuse other fighters, mostly white fighters, feared them. That's probably the worst instance of ducking. Especially Langford, the Greatest fighter who was never champion.

[BKM-2010]

I highly doubt Sam Langford was the best heavyweight in the world back when Jack Johnson held the title.

[Kid McCoy]

I highly doubt Sam Langford was the best heavyweight in the world back when Jack Johnson held the title.

Langford was superior to most of Johnson's challengers, was beating better challengers than those Johnson was facing and there had to be a reason why Johnson had no desire to meet him again. Money certainly wasn't the reason. The French Boxing Federation actually withdrew their recognition of Johnson as champion for his failure to "defend against qualified aspirants", especially Langford.

http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive...D9415B838DF1D3

[JAB5239]

I highly doubt Sam Langford was the best heavyweight in the world back when Jack Johnson held the title.

Actually he was, and Johnson avoided him unconscionably.

[BKM-2010]

I disagree based on what can be seen with footage and documents. The only thing we know for certain is that Jack Johnson beat up Sam Langford when he did actually face him. He never had trouble with the little guys, no matter how powerful they were for their size. I'd see the much bigger Johnson tying him up at will and be too quick and strong for him. And since we're all on this Jack Johnson ducking people, Langford himself literally claimed he would face anybody in the world except for Jim Jeffries.

[Kid McCoy]

When Langford weighed about 150lbs to Johnson's 185lbs. Langford still gave a good account of himself and in one of his autobiographies Johnson claimed Langford knocked him down. Maybe Johnson would have beaten him again, but it seems to me he didn't want to find out.