Ducking beyond reasonable doubt

[Tiozzo]

I wouldn't be surprised if Bute fought Mendy or Stevens next.

we know for a fact that it will be difficult to find a good opponent for Bute for his first appearance on Showtime since the semis aren't done yet, but his second and third fights will be against elite no doubt

[BattlingNelson]

we know for a fact that it will be difficult to find a good opponent for Bute for his first appearance on Showtime since the semis aren't done yet, but his second and third fights will be against elite no doubt

*cough* Pascal *cough*

Not really difficult.

[Kid McCoy]

Always 2 questions with these kinds of things I.e. Should he have fought him and would he have won. I liken Langford-Johnson to Wills-Dempsey. Should he have fought him? For sure. Would Langford or Wills won? I don't think so.

Agreed with the first question though my second would be "why didn't they fight?" When you look at the demand/pressure for the fight, the money involved, Johnson's actions and who he was fighting instead it all points to him not wanting to face Langford.

If he didn't want to fight a guy some people think he would have handled easily then I wonder why. When has a boxer ever turned down big money for a fight he thought he'd win easily? Johnson's line that black vs black title fights weren't a draw was bogus too because Langford, McVea and Jeannette were very popular in France and Australia, and he did actually fight the less dangerous black heavyweight Battling Jim Johnson.

Who we think would have won doesn't prove anything. If Tyson had never fought Buster Douglas, everyone (literally everyone) would say "Tyson would've killed Douglas" and look what happened there. There's only one way to prove who wins a fight and Johnson didn't want to find out.

[JAB5239]

What you say is very true.. The reason Johnson did not want to fight black fighters is because the boxing fans at that time thought Black fighters fighting eachother was "FAKE" and that the fights was fixed because the fighters seemed to be just going through the motions and it was not like a real boxing match....in this link click View Full Article

http://select.nytimes.com/gst/abstra...D8415B838DF1D3

It is correct that Langford chased around after Johnson for more than 20yrs shouting for Johnson to fight him yet i do not believe that Johnson was afraid of Langford or afraid of losing to Langford... i believe it was something else

Whatever it was he didn't fight the most highly regarded heavyweight besides himself. That is a duck and money could not have been the issue since huge offers for the time were made outside the US where two colored fighters fighting was just as popular as him fighting any white contender.

[GJC]

Agreed with the first question though my second would be "why didn't they fight?" When you look at the demand/pressure for the fight, the money involved, Johnson's actions and who he was fighting instead it all points to him not wanting to face Langford.

Not making an excuse for Johnson he should have fought Langford. Think it was a mixture of the era given that in that era the title was so hard won that the champion was loath to put it up and preffered to fight exhibitions etc. Also he does seem to have had a genuine antipathy against Langford possibly similar to the jealousy he showed to Joe Louis. Likewise Dempsey should have fought Wills but I have always thought that Dempsey would have beaten Wills so ironically Wills legend has been enhanced by not fighting Dempsey IMO

[Barn]

Saying he already fought and beat Sam easily does not cut it either because, he fought many black heavyweights he handled easily many times.

[Tiozzo]

*cough* Pascal *cough*

Not really difficult.

I want him to win, but there is a very high possibility that Pascal won't have any belt to defend after december 17th

and what would be the point of going up for one fight, defeat the lineal champion ay 175, then go back down (if he still can) and try to become lineal champion at 168 ??? that doesn't make sense