Calling Larry Holmes A Greater HW Than Jack Dempsey?

[Greg House]

Ok, that's fair, but look at who you're talking about. Lennox Lewis (84"!) and Larry Holmes (81") vs. Jack Dempsey (77"). Lewis would come in at about 240-245 and Holmes at about 220 vs. Dempsey at 185-190! That's a 30 or 50 pound weight difference and that is substantial even if we're talking about blue whales. Let's give Dempsey the benefit of modern nutrition and he would still probably come in at about 205, tops, he just wasn't a behemoth. I just think that Dempsey's ferocity advantage isn't enough to overcome the size advantage and on top of that, I just think those two are better fighters. The size is just icing on the cake.

If the weight really that big of a difference?, wasn't Dempsey known for being a giant killer?. How much did those guys weight against him?

Dempsey was 6.1' and had a reach of 77. Mercer is 6.1' and have a reach of 77'. Many people think that Mercer got robbed in that fight, even some of Lewis fans. Do you think Mercer has the same speed, power and skills of Jack Demsey?

Has anybody of the Klitchkos ever fought any opponent that hit as hard as Dempsey, had the same speed, and was skilled as him?. Beacuse he has fought someone similar to them...

[Sugarj]

Or the speed or style...

Holmes is Taylor made for Jack.

He certainly had the speed......he is one of the fastest heavyweights of all time. But agreed on style, I dont think he'd knock Dempsey out either.

[mrboxer]

Can it be justified? I get the feeling not many think this.

But could you say Holmes had the more impressive HW career with the better resume of wins than Dempsey? Does anyone actually think this anyway?

dempsey would be pummeled he would not last 1 round,larry could fight dempsey with his right hand tied behind his back and he would win with his knockout jab,

[Dan Vida]

I wasnt even aware that many rated dempsey above larry holmes.dempsey wasnt in larry holmes class when it comes to skill and their records,dempseys title reign was a complete joke and he ducked so many contenders,the guy was no great as far as im concerned,very overrated is dempsey.

[sonnyboyx2]

dempsey would be pummeled he would not last 1 round,larry could fight dempsey with his right hand tied behind his back and he would win with his knockout jab,

what if Holmes was fighting Nick Furlano?

[Sugarj]

Poet do you believe that Shavers was a great fighter? Or that version of Norton anything special. In an interview I read of Norton he said that he had lost his zeal for boxing by the time he faced Holmes. Cooney big puncher what else?

Ranking Dempsey above or below Holmes is subjective, but I think Jack had teh footspeed to catch up with Holmes, and if he does land on HOlmes I don't think he will let him get away like Shavers did.

To anyone who has watched Norton vs Holmes...........not a hope that Kenny had lost his zeal at that point. It was one of his finest displays ever. He started slowly, but finished like a rabid dog.

I read his biography back in September, he had just won the WBC title by default of his victory over Jimmy Young (no easy task either, he had to be at his best there) and wanted to solidify that with a victory over Holmes.

I think the 1977/78 Norton was still a superb force.

Remember too, Norton's weakness was his chin. He loses every day of the week to Foreman, Shavers and Cooney. But his performances against lighter hitting (but technically excellent) boxers such as Ali, Young and Holmes demonstrate his worth.

[BigStereotype]

If the weight really that big of a difference?, wasn't Dempsey known for being a giant killer?. How much did those guys weight against him?

Dempsey was 6.1' and had a reach of 77. Mercer is 6.1' and have a reach of 77'. Many people think that Mercer got robbed in that fight, even some of Lewis fans. Do you think Mercer has the same speed, power and skills of Jack Demsey?

Has anybody of the Klitchkos ever fought any opponent that hit as hard as Dempsey, had the same speed, and was skilled as him?. Beacuse he has fought someone similar to them...

That is a very good point. I thought that Lennox won that fight but obviously Jack Dempsey is better than Mercer. I didn't really think about that. But as for Dempsey being a giant killer, that's what I was talking about in my first post. Larry Holmes and Lennox Lewis are MILES ahead of Jess Willard, who just basically stood there and let Dempsey paint a "fistic masterpiece" (Dempsey's words ) on his face.

[CarlosG815]

Seriously. If you can't get past size there's no point in having any discussions with you about Heavyweights because your mind is closed on the subject.

Poet

Yes, size is only an advantage if you have the speed and the power to go with it. Otherwise what are you? You're a Klistchko.

Speed and power win fights. If you have a size advantage and an advantage in speed, you're going to win fights.

This is what my point was when we were discussing Pacquiao (no hijack). It's senseless to bring up a guy beating a bigger guy when the other guy is much slower. Speed is the king.

IMO size is rarely an advantage. You have to be fighting a guy who is much slower than you are, and that is hard to find because usually the smaller guy is quicker. However, when it comes to the Klitschko's, they always seem to fight a guy who is slower.

Klitschko (either) is going to have a hard time landing on Dempsey and I don't see anyway that they win this fight.

[CarlosG815]

That is a very good point. I thought that Lennox won that fight but obviously Jack Dempsey is better than Mercer. I didn't really think about that. But as for Dempsey being a giant killer, that's what I was talking about in my first post. Larry Holmes and Lennox Lewis are MILES ahead of Jess Willard, who just basically stood there and let Dempsey paint a "fistic masterpiece" (Dempsey's words ) on his face.

Dempsey is so fast and had such power that by the time he got inside and unleashed they wouldn't even know what hit them. They have much better defense but Jack is going to catch them eventually and when he does it will be Willard part 2.

[sonnyboyx2]

That is a very good point. I thought that Lennox won that fight but obviously Jack Dempsey is better than Mercer. I didn't really think about that. But as for Dempsey being a giant killer, that's what I was talking about in my first post. Larry Holmes and Lennox Lewis are MILES ahead of Jess Willard, who just basically stood there and let Dempsey paint a "fistic masterpiece" (Dempsey's words ) on his face.

You are ignoring the fact that Jess Willard KOd Jack Johnson in the 26th round for the Heavyweight Crown - 26th round is over 100 minutes of fighting in the 100* heat of the Cuban sunshine, Lewis & the Klitschko Brothers are knackered after 5rds of fighting, Holmes stamina was better but not in the league of Jess Willards yet Dempsey nearly killed Jess in the opening round, breaking his jaw, cheek-bone, eye-socket and knocking his flucking teeth out..Dempsey was so ferocious and applied so much pressure that they would be shattered after a couple of rounds with trying to fed him off and Dempsey had a "Granite Chin" - no fighter ever KOd Jack Dempsey no matter what their size.