In your opinion, was Holyfield a Juicer?

[StarshipTrooper]

yes that's why i said good fighters LIKE mayweather, he's more of an 'old school' fighter with knowledge about the opponent and how to have the antidote. like James Toney, even though he did use steroids.

THAT stayed the same, the rule of boxing knowledge, what changed was the usage of steroids of course, fighters became bigger, stronger, faster, more endurance, etc. etc. etc.

thus, old school fighters like Mayweather, James Toney, Sugar Ray Robinson, Charley Burley, Bernard Hopkins, Roy Jones (he knew how to beat his opponents, even though he relied way more on his physical gifts of course) that dissect and analyze their opponent to name a few ruled over the power punchers, the super fast fighters, the fighters with the super endurance etc.

Mayweather just gets the spotlight for that 0 i guess.

I see what you're driving at and it's a good point. You'd be surprised at how many times I've had to debate posters who seriously believe that no one prior to 1990 knew how to fight: "Ali was succesful only because fighters back then didn't know how to deal with his style. Modern fighters know how to fight someone like that and Ali wouldn't be anything special today". The thing is, everytime you point out someone like Walcott or Johnson doing the very things they tout as modern discoveries they just dismiss it out of hand.

Poet

[BigStereotype]

I don't want to think so, but I'd be sorta surprised if he didn't. He got HUGE in the 90's and a lot of people even questioned if he could fight at Heavyweight at all.

[Kid McCoy]

Just your personal opinion. I am not sure myself, I'm just curious what you think.

Many people look at Barry Bonds and talk about the size of his head in comparison to when he was young.

Judging by the fact that Holyfield's head is much larger than it was when he was younger, do you believe he had taken steroids throughout his career?

I read in an article recently that he claims to have never taken steroids or any PED's.

There are certainly reasons to be su****ious. Hiring the bodybuilder Lee Haney as his personal trainer must have raised a few eyebrows. The change in his physique; contrast him in his early days at heavyweight to the ripped Greek god who faced Tyson, and in a sport which involves lots of cardio in training, making it that much harder to gain muscle mass. Then there was the strange loss of stamina, a common side-effect of roid use: a guy who threw about 500 punches a round against Qawi gasping for air after 3 rounds against Bowe and Moorer.

We know Mosley, Toney, Morrison and Vargas took steroids. I'd be very surprised if they were the only ones.

[paulsinghnl]

I see what you're driving at and it's a good point. You'd be surprised at how many times I've had to debate posters who seriously believe that no one prior to 1990 knew how to fight: "Ali was succesful only because fighters back then didn't know how to deal with his style. Modern fighters know how to fight someone like that and Ali wouldn't be anything special today". The thing is, everytime you point out someone like Walcott or Johnson doing the very things they tout as modern discoveries they just dismiss it out of hand.

Poet

lol that's funny, well people just don't keep up on their boxing history right? gotta enlighten them, that's what his forum is for.

[StarshipTrooper]

lol that's funny, well people just don't keep up on their boxing history right? gotta enlighten them, that's what his forum is for.

Yeah, unfortunately some of them are so narrow minded their ears touch from the inside. Admitting that anybody knew anything prior to their own generation blows their entire world view out of the water.

Poet

[Sugarj]

How do you know that?

Sonny's obviously not online tonight.

I must admit I wasn't aware of Holyfield putting on 4cm between both of the first two Bowe fights but I was aware (as per my previous post) that Holyfield put on 1 and a half inches to his height on the move from cruiserweight to heavyweight.

One and a half inches is a whisker over 4cm. Coincidence?

[StarshipTrooper]

Sonny's obviously not online tonight.

I must admit I wasn't aware of Holyfield putting on 4cm between both of the first two Bowe fights but I was aware (as per my previous post) that Holyfield put on 1 and a half inches to his height on the move from cruiserweight to heavyweight.

One and a half inches is a whisker over 4cm. Coincidence?

That sounds su****iously like HGH rather than 'rhoids.

Poet

[Sugarj]

That sounds su****iously like HGH rather than 'rhoids.

Poet

Yes, agreed.

I have known many guys that I have trained alongside over the years take steroids with no height gain.............some of their physiques became ridiculously cut. But it seems more about water retention and muscle growth or the perceived increase in muscle density.

Human growth hormone may well inspire the skeletal growth necessary for increasing an athlete's height.

I hate illegal or even unnatural performance aids, I'm even a bit funny about the likes of legal suppliments like creatine monohydrate.

I'd like to think my boxing idols have remained clear of the abuse of illegal performance enhancers.

[Scott9945]

yes i think he has taken them i also think Foreman, Lewis, Tyson, Vitali Klitschko, Wlad Klitschko, Rahman, McCall, Morrison, Moorer, Ruddock have all used steroids.

I agree with this.

[HaglerSteelChin]

I discussed Holyfield and the "evan fields" scandal in a previous thread so no need to rehash an old post. In short, yes there is a possibility that he took PEDs especially after suffering hair loss, unusual cardio problems in a early age, and some bodybuilders associated with him.

Vitali Klitshcko is not speculation he was caught before the Atlanta olympics and was kicked off the team.

I use to be a big baseball fan, but don't care for the sport anymore due to pretty much every major star either admitting or being implicated with PED use.

In boxing, i think HGH and EPO might be more the culprit than steroids. Until the sport has random testing with both blood and urine, than yes there will be PED use. Not being a hater, just calling a spade a spade.