Name some fighters who were not natural heavyweights who had success at heavyweight

[Greatest1942]

I know!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm not going to go with you on another back and forth argument. I dont have as much time as you, I'm at work! Ha ha

Dempsey's best fighting weight was 187Lbs.

Frazier's best fighting weight in his own words was 204Lbs.

I am only interested in what is a man's best fighting weight, this is a boxing forum! That is the only thing relevant to this thread. Dempsey's best fighting weight was at cruiserweight. If he bulked up to over 200Lbs his speed and workrate would be hampered.

There is nothing more to add here.

Thats cool...Though I really beleive the thread was about guys who were not natural heavies Sugraj...dempsey was a natural heavy.

[Sugarj]

Thats cool...Though I really beleive the thread was about guys who were not natural heavies Sugraj...dempsey was a natural heavy.

Dempsey would beat many if not all of today's natural heavies. Ha ha. But in fighting terms, that isn't where he would be classed.

It doesn't matter what weight a guy walks round when not in training. Many of todays cruiserweights walk around at well over 200Lbs with skeletal structures and dimensions around that of Dempsey.

In fact many of today's supermiddleweights probably walk around at not much under the cruiserweight limit too.

Its what weight you fight best at that counts.

Is Andre Dirrell not a natural super middleweight because his walking around weight is 200Lbs right now?

In fact Dirrell's 6 ft 2 and 75 inch reach compare not far off Dempsey's 6 ft 1 and 77 inch reach. Of course chest size, bone and muscle density play a part......but its where you fight best! Its all that matters here.

Tommy Hearns had dimensions and a skeletal structure that was well above that of a welterweight. But welterweight is where he fought best. If there was a thread titled 'Name some fighters who were not natural middleweights who had success at middleweight' would I stick Tommy's name in? Of course!!!!

In all the divisions there is differences in height, reach, muscle tone, muscle distribution. The only relevant issue is which weight they fight best at! This is their natural fighting weight.

If you take away training camps we all know what happens to many boxers. They expand!!!! What they expand to is not their natural weight. Hell Ricky Hatton's thighs are probably thicker right now than David Haye's! Means nothing though..........Ricky was a natural Light welterweight.

[Greatest1942]

Dempsey would beat many if not all of today's natural heavies. Ha ha. But in fighting terms, that isn't where he would be classed.

It doesn't matter what weight a guy walks round when not in training. Many of todays cruiserweights walk around at well over 200Lbs with skeletal structures and dimensions around that of Dempsey.

In fact many of today's supermiddleweights probably walk around at not much under the cruiserweight limit too.

Its what weight you fight best at that counts.

Is Andre Dirrell not a natural super middleweight because his walking around weight is 200Lbs right now?

In fact Dirrell's 6 ft 2 and 75 inch reach compare not far off Dempsey's 6 ft 1 and 77 inch reach. Of course chest size, bone and muscle density play a part......but its where you fight best! Its all that matters here.

Tommy Hearns had dimensions and a skeletal structure that was well above that of a welterweight. But welterweight is where he fought best. If there was a thread titled 'Name some fighters who were not natural middleweights who had success at middleweight' would I stick Tommy's name in? Of course!!!!

In all the divisions there is differences in height, reach, muscle tone, muscle distribution. The only relevant issue is which weight they fight best at! This is their natural fighting weight.

If you take away training camps we all know what happens to many boxers. They expand!!!! What they expand to is not their natural weight. Hell Ricky Hatton's thighs are probably thicker right now than David Haye's! Means nothing though..........Ricky was a natural Light welterweight.

fact of the matter is that it is your Skeleton that allows what power or strength you generate. Do you see James Toney Koing out guys regularly. Fact is Dempsey was incredibly lean man, who fought like that because in those days more weight did not equate to power as it is today. Best weight is fine, but for that era it was okay.

Tommy Hearns had a build of a middle weight at best. He was tall , but his width was lacking. His fists were not large enough for a light heavy, neither were his chest. Which cruiser weight of today has diemnsions of Dempsey? Rarely will you find one. Just look at the hands of Jack. Jack clocked over 185 without any weight training, steriods or the great diet structure of today. Few of the other natural heavy's will do that.

This is something I never can quite agree. Nevermind you are entitled to your views

[Sugarj]

fact of the matter is that it is your Skeleton that allows what power or strength you generate. Do you see James Toney Koing out guys regularly. Fact is Dempsey was incredibly lean man, who fought like that because in those days more weight did not equate to power as it is today. Best weight is fine, but for that era it was okay.

Tommy Hearns had a build of a middle weight at best. He was tall , but his width was lacking. His fists were not large enough for a light heavy, neither were his chest. Which cruiser weight of today has diemnsions of Dempsey? Rarely will you find one. Just look at the hands of Jack. Jack clocked over 185 without any weight training, steriods or the great diet structure of today. Few of the other natural heavy's will do that.

This is something I never can quite agree. Nevermind you are entitled to your views

I agree with much of what you've said here except:

'fact of the matter is that it is your Skeleton that allows what power or strength you generate.'

It certainly has a good influence in many cases. But when it comes to power......there are so many other factors in play too. Technique, velocity, muscle mass, timing. Its a subject which has been well debated in this forum.

We, as fans cant judge a fighters skeleton as a basis for what their natural weight should be. We can go on the odd stat (fist size, reach, height, unexpanded chest) but thats it. Muscular dimensions vary with with weight making, weight training etc.....so that rarely tells the story either.

Fact is, your best fighting weight is the best guidance whatever your skeleton. Hee hee.

This debate would have better suited Halloween!

[sonnyboyx2]

I agree with much of what you've said here except:

'fact of the matter is that it is your Skeleton that allows what power or strength you generate.'

It certainly has a good influence in many cases. But when it comes to power......there are so many other factors in play too. Technique, velocity, muscle mass, timing. Its a subject which has been well debated in this forum.

We, as fans cant judge a fighters skeleton as a basis for what their natural weight should be. We can go on the odd stat (fist size, reach, height, unexpanded chest) but thats it. Muscular dimensions vary with with weight making, weight training etc.....so that rarely tells the story either.

Fact is, your best fighting weight is the best guidance whatever your skeleton. Hee hee.

This debate would have better suited Halloween!

Sugarj.. he will next tell you that you are wrong and suffer from having a low IQ and that you are the worst poster he has ever came across and that he is correct in everything he says... but a word of advice for you buddy Don't dare mention Langford or the murders row because he has read a couple of books on them and will assassinate you if you mention anything he dont agree with, everyone knows nothing and Greatest1942 knows everything, with his handle of Greatest1942 being a reference to Charley Burley and Ray Robinson, Marcel Cerdan, Jake LaMotta & Tony Zale all running scared.

[Greatest1942]

I agree with much of what you've said here except:

'fact of the matter is that it is your Skeleton that allows what power or strength you generate.'

It certainly has a good influence in many cases. But when it comes to power......there are so many other factors in play too. Technique, velocity, muscle mass, timing. Its a subject which has been well debated in this forum.

We, as fans cant judge a fighters skeleton as a basis for what their natural weight should be. We can go on the odd stat (fist size, reach, height, unexpanded chest) but thats it. Muscular dimensions vary with with weight making, weight training etc.....so that rarely tells the story either.

Fact is, your best fighting weight is the best guidance whatever your skeleton. Hee hee.

This debate would have better suited Halloween!

yes thats true...I was only telling what is the first criteria,but its not the only one. I know that. Timing technique and delivery is most important too. What I meant to convey was make all other things equal (timing, technique, delivery, muscle etc) and the man with bigger skeleton is likely to generate more power than the one with smaller skeleton.Also the amount of muscle you can carry on you directly depends upon ur skeleton anything beyond that and you hamper yourself. I hope cleared the matter up. Never mind I hold dempsey as a true heavy...But if you don't thats your opinion.

Sonny I and Sugraj generally have differences but I have never insulted him , nor he me. As long as he never insults me I don't have to do it too. He is a knowledgeable boxing fans. We don't need to agree on everything. As for you I am sorry can't say the same thing.I wish I could be on better terms but some of your comments are way of mark.Nothing personal, but I don't consider you a knowledgeabl poster thats all.

[Sugarj]

Sugarj.. he will next tell you that you are wrong and suffer from having a low IQ and that you are the worst poster he has ever came across and that he is correct in everything he says... but a word of advice for you buddy Don't dare mention Langford or the murders row because he has read a couple of books on them and will assassinate you if you mention anything he dont agree with, everyone knows nothing and Greatest1942 knows everything, with his handle of Greatest1942 being a reference to Charley Burley and Ray Robinson, Marcel Cerdan, Jake LaMotta & Tony Zale all running scared.

You'll notice, I didn't invade that thread! Ha ha. I just watched from a distance!

[Sugarj]

yes thats true...I was only telling what is the first criteria,but its not the only one. I know that. Timing technique and delivery is most important too. What I meant to convey was make all other things equal (timing, technique, delivery, muscle etc) and the man with bigger skeleton is likely to generate more power than the one with smaller skeleton.Also the amount of muscle you can carry on you directly depends upon ur skeleton anything beyond that and you hamper yourself. I hope cleared the matter up. Never mind I hold dempsey as a true heavy...But if you don't thats your opinion.

Sonny I and Sugraj generally have differences but I have never insulted him , nor he me. As long as he never insults me I don't have to do it too. He is a knowledgeable boxing fans. We don't need to agree on everything. As for you I am sorry can't say the same thing.I wish I could be on better terms but some of your comments are way of mark.Nothing personal, but I don't consider you a knowledgeabl poster thats all.

To be fair Sonnyboyx and yourself are clearly knowledgeable boxing fans. I've debated with both of you in intelligent threads. Your both good guys and we all see things from different angles.

But boxing fans do seem to see things differently to each other.......and with boxing being boxing, macho and all that no one seems to admit when their opinion might actually be wrong (me too!!!). Myself and Sonny have both watched Fight of the century literally hundreds of times, but we've disagreed on it. No two pairs of eyes are the same!

Plus, theres a hell of a lot of fighter's careers which we attempt to cram in our heads. Its alot to remember!!

No one has to get on, but it would be boring if we all did!