Is Joe Louis Overrated?

[Ivich]

Who was in the lead for Louis vs Conn a super middle wight after 12 rounds?

Do you need someone to explain the scorecards to you? Is that what you are asking?lol
This is what you posted.
"Louis on the scorecards is well behind these men on points."

And it is just WRONG as the scorecards reveal!

The Conn fight scorecards
2:58 ref: Eddie Joseph 5-7 Bill Healy 6-6 Marty Monroe 4-7Box Rec


The Walcott 1st fight score cards

ref: Ruby Goldstein 6-7 Frank Forbes 8-6 Marty Monroe 9-6 BOX REC.


You just cannot get around that ,however much you bluster and lie.

[Ivich]

The Auturo Godoy was given to Louis when his personal ref Art Donovan broke a tie vote.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arturo_Godoy


Watch the film and score was left of it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oLbLGeTHIJA

Watch edited highlights from two fights and score those fights and produce a winner?
Yes that will work,but only in your biased, hate driven brain, or what passes for one!

The Godoy 1st fight scorecards.

ref: Arthur Donovan 10-5 George LeCron 10-4 Tommy Shortell 5-10
Notice that Donovan,who you describe as ,"Louis' personal referee," gave Godoy 1 round more than the judge that voted for Godoy? Was that judge," Louis' personal judge," too?

NB Louis had close fight with Arturo Godoy and Joe Walcott first time around if as you are insinuating Donovan was crooked and biased in Louis' favour,why didnt Louis as champion, insist on him officiating for the return fight with Godoy ? Instead of agreeing to a different referee?
ps Donovan wasnt even a judge for their 2nd fight!

If Donovan was in Louis' pocket ,as you to my certain knowledge have implied for over 10 years on the Classic Forum before you were recently banned permanently , wouldn't that have been the logical thing to do?

Eddie Joseph was the referee for the first Conn Louis fight he had Conn in front , yet Louis raised no objection to him officiating for their rematch?

2:58 ref: Eddie Joseph 5-7 Bill Healy 6-6 Marty Monroe 4-7

How does that work ?
If I had the slightest regard for you I would urge you to stop with these vitriolic attempts at character assassination of Jack Johnson and Joe Louis,but since I despise you ,I hope you carry on with them,because the only person you are harming is your own sad self!

[Dr. Z]

Watch edited highlights from two fights and score those fights and produce a winner?
Yes that will work,but only in your biased, hate driven brain, or what passes for one!

The Godoy 1st fight scorecards.

ref: Arthur Donovan 10-5 George LeCron 10-4 Tommy Shortell 5-10
Notice that Donovan,who you describe as ,"Louis' personal referee," gave Godoy 1 round more than the judge that voted for Godoy? Was that judge," Louis' personal judge," too?

NB Louis had close fight with Arturo Godoy and Joe Walcott first time around if as you are insinuating Donovan was crooked and biased in Louis' favour,why didnt Louis as champion, insist on him officiating for the return fight with Godoy ? Instead of agreeing to a different referee?
ps Donovan wasnt even a judge for their 2nd fight!

If Donovan was in Louis' pocket ,as you to my certain knowledge have implied for over 10 years on the Classic Forum before you were recently banned permanently , wouldn't that have been the logical thing to do?

Eddie Joseph was the referee for the first Conn Louis fight he had Conn in front , yet Louis raised no objection to him officiating for their rematch?

2:58 ref: Eddie Joseph 5-7 Bill Healy 6-6 Marty Monroe 4-7

How does that work ?
If I had the slightest regard for you I would urge you to stop with these vitriolic attempts at character assassination of Jack Johnson and Joe Louis,but since I despise you ,I hope you carry on with them,because the only person you are harming is your own sad self!

Oh look Walter Mitty / Pincncchio / Louis Fakanan has re-appeared or should I go by your name Tony Mcvey / Tonto 62 / and Ivich along with various others that are banned?



Donovan's cards and actions for Louis were visibly bad on film when Joe need him he and he was kicked out of the Walcott fight.

The crowd booed that decision too, though not as badly as they booed the Walcott decision! After all Godoy was not American.

There were rematch demands which Louis granted mostly because ion the controversy from the first fights.

[Ivich]

Oh look Walter Mitty / Pincncchio / Louis Fakanan has re-appeared or should I go by your name Tony Mcvey / Tonto 62 / and Ivich along with various others that are banned?



Donovan's cards and actions for Louis were visibly bad on film when Joe need him he and he was kicked out of the Walcott fight.

The crowd booed that decision too, though not as badly as they booed the Walcott decision! After all Godoy was not American.

There were rematch demands which Louis granted mostly because ion the controversy from the first fights.

Where is the proof that Donovan was kicked out of officiating the 2nd Walcott v Louis fight?

You are saying Arthur Donovan was a corrupt referee .We would like proof of that.
You have also said that MSG was Louis' arena ,yet after his close fights there with Godoy and Walcott the rematches were at Yankee Stadium?

Did Louis have the referees and officials at that arena in his pocket too?

Unlike you I am banned from no boxing forums and also unlike you, I can prove it.
Anyone here who wishes to verify my status on Classic has only to go on their forum and look for my posts my User Name is mcvey on there,while they are on there as a guest they can also check on your status your user name being Mendoza, they will see a BANNED next to it.

Truth will out!

[Dr. Z]

Where is the proof that Donovan was kicked out of officiating the 2nd Walcott v Louis fight?

You are saying Arthur Donovan was a corrupt referee .We would like proof of that.
You have also said that MSG was Louis' arena ,yet after his close fights there with Godoy and Walcott the rematches were at Yankee Stadium?

Did Louis have the referees and officials at that arena in his pocket too?

Unlike you I am banned from no boxing forums and also unlike you, I can prove it.
Anyone here who wishes to verify my status on Classic has only to go on their forum and look for my posts my User Name is mcvey on there,while they are on there as a guest they can also check on your status your user name being Mendoza, they will see a BANNED next to it.

Truth will out!

Yes, you dolt, Donovan was kicked out of the Walcott fight and a replacement referee had to be agreed upon by both parties! Donovan was too pro Louis. That is a fact.

Instead of if asking for proof on corrupt boxing / referees, why don't you use you head? His scoring is way off in some fights that Louis needed help in. One of Louis manger was a numbers runner and mob connected, He went to prison. Take a good guess as to why. Might he have " fixed some " fights?

Fighters almost never admit to fixed fights! Once again, stop talking and waiting space about another board. I do not post there as mendoza. You do not pay to run this site, and it has rules. I am going to flag you if you waste board space on your obsession again.

Again Louis got his split decision thanks to Donovan and the fight I am taking about was Louis vs Godoy I, in Madison Square Garden, New York!

	Madison Square Garden, New York	W-SD	15/15		event bout score wiki
ref: Arthur Donovan 10-5 George LeCron 10-4 Tommy Shortell 5-10

You continue to think that people care about what you have to say, your lies, our where you were banned before.

News flash, we don't care.

[Ivich]

Yes, you dolt, Donovan was kicked out of the Walcott fight and a replacement referee had to be agreed upon by both parties! Donovan was too pro Louis. That is a fact.

Instead of if asking for proof on corrupt boxing / referees, why don't you use you head? His scoring is way off in some fights that Louis needed help in. One of Louis manger was a numbers runner and mob connected, He went to prison. Take a good guess as to why. Might he have " fixed some " fights?

Fighters almost never admit to fixed fights! Once again, stop talking and waiting space about another board. I do not post there as mendoza. You do not pay to run this site, and it has rules. I am going to flag you if you waste board space on your obsession again.

Again Louis got his split decision thanks to Donovan and the fight I am taking about was Louis vs Godoy I, in Madison Square Garden, New York!

	Madison Square Garden, New York	W-SD	15/15		event bout score wiki
ref: Arthur Donovan 10-5 George LeCron 10-4 Tommy Shortell 5-10

You continue to think that people care about what you have to say, your lies, our where you were banned before.

News flash, we don't care.

NOPE ! DONOVAN GAVE GODOY ONE MORE ROUND THAN THE OTHER OFFICIAL WHO VOTED FOR LOUIS.

And you are judging a fight in which you have only ever seen highlights of ,where is the logic there?
I asked for a primary source, provided by you that Donovan was ever originally picked as the referee for the second Louis fight.
Instead of providing the requested proof,
You are saying that the challenger Walcott objected to Donovan as the referee and so the champion Louis caved in and allowed another referee to substitute .How did Walcott force another referee on the champion? Did he say," I won't challenge Louis for the title unless I get a different referee to Donovan?"
Where can I read this statement by Walcott,in which newspaper was it published? Which newspaper has the sports page headlines saying Louis wants Donovan as the referee but Walcott objects??
WHERE IS THE PROOF TO BACK UP YOUR ASSERTIONS?
Donovan had not refereed a world heavyweight title fight for 2 years and he retired as a referee a couple of months after the 2nd Louis v Walcott fight.
He was never in the frame as the referee for the fight, you have produced no proof that he was and you wont!

[Willie Pep 229]

Oddly enough I found Walcott's people complaining about Donovan the day before the first fight not the second.

While the NYSAC wouldn't bend to the pressure publically they did in the end use Goldstein and not Donovan.

Then Goldstein did in fact score for Walcott 7-6.

But come the second fight refreee Frank Fullman was the only one with Louis ahead at the time of stoppage. Which was out of wack with the other two judges.

Go figure. Prize fighting.


New York Times, 4 December 1947.

Screenshot_20230126_185719_**********

[Ivich]

Oddly enough I found Walcott's people complaining about Donovan the day before the first fight not the second.

While the NYSAC wouldn't bend to the pressure publically they did in the end use Goldstein and not Donovan.

Then Goldstein did in fact score for Walcott 7-6.

But come the second fight refreee Frank Fullman was the only one with Louis ahead at the time of stoppage. Which was out of wack with the other two judges.

Go figure. Prize fighting.


New York Times, 4 December 1947.

Screenshot_20230126_185719_**********

Yes, the scores were


ref: Frank Fullam 5-2 Harold Barnes 3-6 Jack O'Sullivan 4-5 which indicates how many rounds were judged to be even.Its my contention that no fight that close can be a robbery.
As to Fullam scoring the fight for Louis. t
referee Harry Gibbs UK was in the frame to judge the Hagler v Leonard fight and was flown from UK to the site of the fight.Hagler's people objected to Gibbs on the grounds that Hagler had such a bad experience after winning the title from Minter in the UK.

[Ivich]

[QUOTE=Ivich;n31720092]

Yes, the scores were


ref: Frank Fullam 5-2 judgeHarold Barnes 3-6 judgeJack O'Sullivan 4-5 which indicates how many rounds were judged to be even.Its my contention that no fight that close can be a robbery.
As to Fullam scoring the fight for Louis?
Referee Harry Gibbs UK was in the frame to judge the Hagler v Leonard fight and was flown from UK to the site of the fight.Hagler's people objected to Gibbs on the grounds that Hagler had such a bad experience after winning the title from Minter in the UK.Gibbs was not an official at that fight.
Gibbs was replaced by Jo Jo Guerra who had judged the Minter fight. Guerra turned in a ridiculous score for the Leonard fight of118-110 for Sugar Ray, the irony is that Gibbs watching the fight on tv, scored the fight for Hagler! Had he been accepted as a judge Hagler would have retained his title.
ps I don''t believe Donovan ever refereed Walcott.
Goldstein officiated again in a Walcott fight ,against Rex Layne and voted for Layne.

ref: Ruby Goldstein 2-6 Frank Forbes 3-6 Bert Grant 3-6

Good find on your part!
NB Louis had a further 11 fights after the Walcott 1st one in which Ruby Goldstein was the referee,Goldstein had voted for Walcott in that fight. Of those 11 fights Goldstein was the referee for 2 of them,for the Savold and Marciano fights. Harold Barnes the judge who had Walcott up by a lopsided score of 6-3. for their 2nd fight was the judge for 2 more Louis fights.So much for Louis handpicking officials

[Dr. Z]

NOPE ! DONOVAN GAVE GODOY ONE MORE ROUND THAN THE OTHER OFFICIAL WHO VOTED FOR LOUIS.

And you are judging a fight in which you have only ever seen highlights of ,where is the logic there?
I asked for a primary source, provided by you that Donovan was ever originally picked as the referee for the second Louis fight.
Instead of providing the requested proof,
You are saying that the challenger Walcott objected to Donovan as the referee and so the champion Louis caved in and allowed another referee to substitute .How did Walcott force another referee on the champion? Did he say," I won't challenge Louis for the title unless I get a different referee to Donovan?"
Where can I read this statement by Walcott,in which newspaper was it published? Which newspaper has the sports page headlines saying Louis wants Donovan as the referee but Walcott objects??
WHERE IS THE PROOF TO BACK UP YOUR ASSERTIONS?
Donovan had not refereed a world heavyweight title fight for 2 years and he retired as a referee a couple of months after the 2nd Louis v Walcott fight.
He was never in the frame as the referee for the fight, you have produced no proof that he was and you wont!

I told you, your entire strategy is based on making me search where this happened in the press. I could play that game too, making you produce numerous thing to back up you lies and agenda. Wh

Here you go. Walcott camp protested against Donovan for the re-match! I hope you can read it.


https://www.nytimes.com/1947/12/04/a...f-walcott.html


PROTEST IS ISSUED ON FIGHT REFEREE; Webster, Manager of Walcott, Advises Against Donovan for Louis Title Bout


You can search for yourself you know.