Who Would You Take Out The IBHOF?

[frankenfrank]

I'm a fan of Ingemar Johansson, but there are better heavyweights than him who should be in there.

Pipino Cuevas was a great fighter, but IBHOF worthy? I'm not convinced (I've only seen a dozen or so of his fights, though).

Matthew Saad Muhammad is borderline imo.

Dwight Qawi shouldn't be in there.

Braddock is undeserving, regardless of how many movies are made about him.

(Yes, I still hate Mike Tyson, but he does deserve to be in there. Barely.)

This time an almost completely true post . Except Qawi that is . And then Tyson's deserving being borderline .
All of the rest you mentioned along with Willard and more so : Lionel Rose help to explain and justify my eternal ignoring of the HOF list.

[1SILVA]

Today I read a thread here and stumbled upon the name : "Lionel Rose".
Always thought it was some boxing "historian/writer" but it was given as an example of a fighter so I went straight to boxrec to check what I don't know.
And the outcome was :
http://boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?hum...1513&cat=boxer

This should be the first removal as far as I currently know from the HOF.
I was never even interested in who is the HOF and who is not but this one gave it a new low.

Lionel Rose is not in the IBHOF. Most of his losses, like many fighters who stay on too long, occurred at the end of his career. In his prime, he was a tremendous fighter. Go see his title win against HOF'er Fighting Harada. Rose was also the first Black Australian world champ. If he did get inducted into the IBHOF, I wouldn't see it as a crime. Excellent thread, its nice talking about who is deserving and not.

[frankenfrank]

Lionel Rose is not in the IBHOF. Most of his losses, like many fighters who stay on too long, occurred at the end of his career. In his prime, he was a tremendous fighter. Go see his title win against HOF'er Fighting Harada. Rose was also the first Black Australian world champ. If he did get inducted into the IBHOF, I wouldn't see it as a crime. Excellent thread, its nice talking about who is deserving and not.

His biggest achievements were the MD win over the far from great fighting Harada and a SD which :

The decision sparked a major riot. Fires were set, debris thrown into the ring, and cars overturned in the parking lot. Rose was knocked down in the 10th round.

Also : He retired aged 28. So how many of his losses are you going to blame on his too late retirement ?
He is a member of the World Boxing Hall Of Fame , probably not what you wrote. So are there too corrupt sanctioning bodies ? I assume that yes.

His record proves he was nowhere near a tremendous fighter.

[1SILVA]

His biggest achievements were the MD win over the far from great fighting Harada and a SD which :

Also : He retired aged 28. So how many of his losses are you going to blame on his too late retirement ?
He is a member of the World Boxing Hall Of Fame , probably not what you wrote. So are there too corrupt sanctioning bodies ? I assume that yes.

His record proves he was nowhere near a tremendous fighter.

You make a good point about the WBHOF. Less deserving fighters have been elected thee, and not on the same pedestal as the IBHOF in terms of popularity and authenticity.

[1SILVA]

His biggest achievements were the MD win over the far from great fighting Harada and a SD which :

Also : He retired aged 28. So how many of his losses are you going to blame on his too late retirement ?
He is a member of the World Boxing Hall Of Fame , probably not what you wrote. So are there too corrupt sanctioning bodies ? I assume that yes.

His record proves he was nowhere near a tremendous fighter.

Rose was 19 when he won the title. In the history of boxing, usually those who peak at a young age are done before they are 30(Benitez, Fernando Vargas, Gomez, Zarate, etc.).

[Chups]

Only two. Barry McGuigan and Terrible Terry Norris.

[JAB5239]

His biggest achievements were the MD win over the far from great fighting Harada

Lol, far from great? I would really like to hear more of your opinion on Harada, but I fear you know nothing more of him than an incomplete boxrec resume.

[BennyST]

His biggest achievements were the MD win over the far from great fighting Harada and a SD which :

Also : He retired aged 28. So how many of his losses are you going to blame on his too late retirement ?
He is a member of the World Boxing Hall Of Fame , probably not what you wrote. So are there too corrupt sanctioning bodies ? I assume that yes.

His record proves he was nowhere near a tremendous fighter.

*sigh* Oh god, no offense Frank, but you seriously need to learn something. Lionel Rose a nobody? Fighting Harada far from great?

Now, you just found that SD thing on boxrec right? You haven't actually seen the fight against Chucho have you? No, didn't think so. Rose won it but the fans were 95% mad Chucho fans and while it was close it was a clear win for him. Even if he had knocked out Chucho the fans would have started a riot thinking he was robbed. Seriously mate, some of your posts of late have stank of plain trolling and ignorance.

If you don't have the slightest clue who someone is and what they have achieved, don't ****ing pretend you know something about them.

His only two losses before fighting a prime Ruben Olivares were very early on and both were guys he beat too. Unified (Undisputed lineal) BW champ during the time when the BW era was arguably at it's greatest depth of talent. Wins over Fighting Harada, Guts Ishimatsu, Jose Medel, Chucho Castillo, Alan Rudkin, Takao Sakurai (olympic gold medalist), Rocky Gatellari.

Please though, explain one thing for me. How is Fighting Harada far from great? Explain that one if you could because I'm flat out stumped.

Like some fighters he unfortunately aged very early in his boxing career. He was struggling with his health even by the time he was fighting Olivares and it went downhill very quickly from there on. His weight problems and his issue of making it brought a great career to an early end. He had one last great fight in a very close fight, which could have gone either way, against the Japanese great Yoshiaki Numata in Numata's hometown but was already done by this stage.

I don't know why you bother to comment on guys when you literally just found out about them and have done nothing more than simply looked up boxrec? Have you ever seem him fight? Do you know anything about any of his opponents? Do you know what historic achievements he made?

Edit: Hey listen mate, I'm not trying to be rude or anything and I hope it didn't come across too nasty, but I just find it a bit strange (and annoying to be honest) that you would slag off a great fighter without knowing a single thing or ever seeing him even fight. Does that make sense or am I just coming across as a prick?

[BennyST]

Only two. Barry McGuigan and Terrible Terry Norris.

I definitely agree with McGuigan, but Terry Norris is probably deserving. I mean, when you hear people arguing whether Hatton should be in, or Gatti, or Corrales etc, it's a no brainer that Norris should be in way above them.

I don't think they should get in at all TBH, but if they do then Norris is a definite. He actually had a great career apart from some crazy losses, but even those were to great fighters and nothing to be ashamed of. He is without doubt one of the great 154 pounders of all time and you could make a very good argument that he is the greatest.

[1SILVA]

I definitely agree with McGuigan, but Terry Norris is probably deserving. I mean, when you hear people arguing whether Hatton should be in, or Gatti, or Corrales etc, it's a no brainer that Norris should be in way above them.

I don't think they should get in at all TBH, but if they do then Norris is a definite. He actually had a great career apart from some crazy losses, but even those were to great fighters and nothing to be ashamed of. He is without doubt one of the great 154 pounders of all time and you could make a very good argument that he is the greatest.

Excellent post concerning your opinion on Lionel Rose. Norris is another great fighter who lost three fights at the tail end of his career and who was washed up at 30, like many fighters who peaked early.