James Toney:Is he a ATG?

[talip bin osman]

here is cliff rold's take on the subject matter...

i think this pretty much is a solid examination...

http://www.boxingscene.com/?m=show&id=17450

[SNVDoublePunch!]

Yes and with absolutely zero hesitance or doubt.

[Heru]

Top 100?... Yes

Top 50?... Probably not

Forget about Toney being the most active fighter of all his peers, but how can you be considered 'very inconsistent' when you have 11 wins for every loss?

Forget about him rising up in weight 40+ pounds from where he was at when he entered the pro ranks and still being compettive and not some 1 and done against the weakest titleholder.

Maybe if he would have dominated fighters the caliber of David Telesco's, Richard Hall's, and Derrick Harmon's, he would've been thought of as an invincible ATG right about now.

[Obama]

Definitely an ATG. Behind his peers Hopkins and Jones tho...but not by that much.

[frankenfrank]

I dont think so.

I'd consider someone to be an ATG when they've clearly dominated for a sufficient period.
I dont think Toney has done that.

The essence of P4P is to be successful against bigger men which he definitely was , not to mention most of them were also significantly younger and fresher than himself by the time he fought them. Even Evander Holyfield had less pro fight than Toney by the time they fought. He is a fat , old and out of shape MW whom holds his own against HWs. True he had plenty of close fights and many bad nights , but the worst James Toney never got stopped unlike fighters like Terry Norris , Joe Louis , Sony Liston , Joe Frazier , Evander Holyfield and Roberto Duran. What is more impressing ? Duran being starched by Hearns or Toney losing a decision to Sam Peter ? Ray Leonard beaten into submission by Hector Camacho and abused by Terry Norris , or Toney drawing with Hasim Rahman ? Ray Robinson collapsing against light hitting Joey Maxim , or Toney flooring Vassily Jirov after more than 11 rounds of being swarmed by a much younger , bigger and fresher Jirov ?
The versions of James Toney in that comparisons are remote from his best and even in his worst nights he never got humiliated or close to it like those mentioned above.

[frankenfrank]

Definitely an ATG. Behind his peers Hopkins and Jones tho...but not by that much.

Ahead of Hopkins for sure . Behind Jones ? I can see why the most think so , but no. Again , look at each man's worst performances , Jones was better conditioned even then , but how they ended ? Not to mention Jones' condition against Toney was his best , and Toney's against Jones his worst. Still Jones was not even close and did not even considered trying to stop Toney , such a move would have become his first stoppage loss.

[Toney616]

Forget about Toney being the most active fighter of all his peers, but how can you be considered 'very inconsistent' when you have 11 wins for every loss?

I was refering to the wilderness years (97-2002) and the times he turned up in the ring either drained(Thadzi, Griffin I) or just plan overweight, post Holyfield

[Toney616]

his record is made up of fighting more stiffs than contenders,in all his fights he has fought only a few[over 5 under 10]big names and most of them where nearing the age of 40,and in some cases over 40

His best wins are:
Michael Nunn
Merqui Sosa
Reggie Johnson
Mike McCallum II
Mike McCallum III
Tim Littles
Charles Williams
Vassiliy Jirov
Evander Holyfield

Only McCallum and Holyfield was around the 40 mark, when he fought him

[Toney616]

toney is absolutely an atg.that shouldnt even be debateable.he fought almost everybody except hopkins when they were on top of thier games and came away with 3 losses.not to mention he deserves wins over peter,ruiz,and rahman on his resume.he beat up 4 hw champs.his evander win deserves more credit being as how evander arguablly beat valuez.never close to being stopped and not to mention his skill set

Whats your criteria for a ATG?

[Toney616]

Yes James Toney is an ATG and IMO he is one of the greatest fighters of the last 50yrs although i now wish he would hang em up

I read an article which hinted that he needs the money. I hope that isnt true