Are Today's Fighters Better than Fighters From The Past? Hell Yes

[SBleeder]

That helped Ali out, he wasnt dancing that fight, he wanted it in a small ring.

[IMG]http://i729.***********.com/albums/ww300/seanachie/NotSureIfSerious.jpg[/IMG]

Do you have any evidence that Ali wanted a small ring or are you just hypothesizing about what a man was thinking?

[boxing boy]

Huh what the **** are you talking about. When did I ever say Wepner didnt knock Ali down? Of course he knocked Ali down. Ali got more gifts from refs and judges than anyone in history, he used to just pull fighters heads down and no one ever said a word about it. One judges card had Foreman not winning a round against Ali....a round...and then people wonder why he had to go all out? Cause he knew no judge was going to let him win that fight. Oh and Foreman was up at 9, so why was he counted out? If you think refs can be wrong and Wepner didnt knock Ali down...ok, but then Ali didnt beat Foreman.

Wepner DID NOT knock Ali down.Do you want to see the picture of Wepner standing on Ali's foot and Ali falling backwards? Then lifting his foot off of Ali's foot when he was falling backwards so he would go down?

This is an old trick that the old-timers used to use.And hoping the referee would not see it.You didn't know that?

This shows what a moron and fool you are.

[boxing boy]

I just read where TheMagicMan said that Muhammad Ali wanted the small 16 foot ring that he fought George Foreman in.He further said Ali wanted a small ring because he wasn't dancing that night.

This post shows even more what a fool he is.What a complete moron he is.

He doesn't know that Muhammad Ali trained to dance and dance and dance more against George Foreman.He must not know that Ali danced the first round and AFTER the first round he decided not to dance.

He probably thinks that Muhammad Ali also wanted the ring canvas padded softly,which made it harder to dance.Referre Zack Clayton talked about the ring canvas and how it was padded very softly,thus Muhammad Ali could not dance.

Muhammad Ali trained and planned to dance every round aginst George Foreman you fool!! It was AFTER the first round that he changed his mind to stop dancing you moron.Please do some research before posting about something you know NOTHING about.

Muhammad Ali wanted a 20-24 foot ring so he could move and dance against George Foreman you fool.Just common sense should tell you that George Foreman wanted a smaller ring with a softly padded ring canvas.What are you smoking The MagicMan?

Your DEAD WRONG again my friend.Keep making a fool of yourself.

[bklynboy]

The whole post is idiotic, it also doesnt say how many people are boxing in NYC, or practice boxing, it just says how many shows there are. If it had numbers like, back in 1910 there were an estimated 800,000 people who called themselves boxers living in NYC, today there are a mere 400,000...then it could make an argument, but it doesnt do that. Its argument would still suck, because NYC does not equal the world. In order to make a claim that more people were fighting back then as opposed to today theyd have to add up the whole world, which they dont do. They dont mention the Eastern Euro's the Africans, the Pacific Islanders, nope, the world according to this article is NYC. And I disagree with the whole "numbers" thing and feel there are more factors.

Boxing was a lot more popular in the 1920s-1950s, whether it was due to the fact that there wasn’t TV is subject for another debate. What is clear is that in the US there were more boxers, more gyms more professional fights 60-90 years ago in a population less than half what there is today. Furthermore many of our best athletes are entering other, less dangerous sports.

World wide, you’re probably correct in assuming that there are more boxers today than there were in the 20s-50s. But top-level trainers are still based primarily in the US and Western Europe. Boxing is an Anglo-American sport that spread throughout the world and is now big in places where it was barely known before (Russia, Thailand, Japan). Although it ought to be remembered that there were boxers from all-over in the 1920s: Pancho Villa from the Philippines and Battling Siki from Senegal.

I also think its hilarious the people supporting this article are Ali fans. According to the article the 60's and 70's should be the worst time for boxing. The world was split in two, which halves the whole pool of fighters, then in the U.S. 15k men who could have been boxers were killed in vietnam, others wounded, others wasted the prime years. NFL and BBall were growing in popularity at record numbers. So if you want to argue that the 60's and 70's were the worst era for boxing, go right ahead.

I’ve been away from the board for a while and missed this article. But the Vietnam War would not have affected boxing, and sports in general, anywhere near WWII. You say that 15,000 boxers or would be boxers died in Vietnam? Impossible. 58,000 Americans died in Vietnam. That would mean that 1 in 4 were potential boxers. Again, impossible.

Also the article fails to mention nutrition, just brings up steroids. The average person lives over a decade longer now than at "boxings prime". Fighters can recover from injuries with medical technology. They no longer implement leaches in medical procedures. People understand protiens, and creatine, and vitamins. They understand the value of certain legal supplements as wel as hydration. Technology has improved, training equipment is much better and you can be scientific. You can also watch and breakdown film, not just your opponents, but yourself (which would be even more important).

There are some improvements in sports medicine but a lot of our improvements (cross-training, plyometrics) was commonplace 100 years ago. No doubt medicine has allowed injured athletes to return to their sport faster and film has changed the game a lot.

People on average are taller and bigger now. Its from being healthier. Also many sports have fallen by the wayside, but yet people still break records in events like the polevault (now banned in many U.S. schools) and the hammer throw.

This is where your argument starts to fall apart. People are taller because the world has become richer and poor people now have enough protein and calories to reach their potential height. Let me restate it: people are not “evolving” into taller people.

Records are falling because many people who would have otherwise not participated are now employed as professional athletes. The first Olympians were wealthy Ivy League college students who were athletically inclined. They were not the worlds best athletes. Muhammad Ali almost didn’t go to the Olympics because he didn’t have the money. 100 years ago, 50 years ago the Usain Bolt’s of the world remained unknown.

The whole fighters were better in the past is ridiculous. The average club fighter would beat Dempsey or Johnson. Any hw in the top 15 right now would wax Ali.

Do you really believe this or do you just want to piss people off?

[bklynboy]

The funniest part of this guys almanac is when he talks about Vitali. First of all, anyone with half a brain could tell you Vitali would KO Jack johnson with 1 straight right.

I like the K brothers but I think that Jack Johnson would give them fits: a clever defensive boxer with pop. The K's height and discipline might allow them to win. But I don't see it being a one-sided affair.

[bklynboy]

The only real thing I hate is when an opponents quantity of wins is used to determine how good he was. That's just childish to me.

Like for Ali, he was good, he fought incredible competition.

But using Robinsons 200+ fights as a reason to determine p4p greatness is a joke. Line up 100 Joes or even average fighters to a guy like Leonard or Pacquiao, and you have the same outcome.

You would be right if Robinson fought 200 bums. Go through the list of his opponents -- yes he fought keep busy fights, last-minute opponents as do all fighters -- but his resume is top rate.

[bklynboy]

So track relied on technical advancements? marathons rely on technical advancement. People back then thought a 4 minute mile was humanly impossible, now guys run at 3:43....You are dumb as hell. The most simple sport, running...running, all times have been broke.

Why did track times steadily drop from the 50's on...you say steroids? Ok then all boxers today are on steroids and could beat the hell out of people before.

Also boxers today can go longer, its not sanctioned. Just as UFC fights used to be unlimited time. You think they were in better shape? **** no, that was 8 years ago. The sport changed so itd be more watchable. No one wants to sit through the 1920's boxing, where 2 fat guys stand there punching like bitches, doing nothing. Thats how it used to be, you ever see their technique? Its terrible, their footwork...terrible.

There were boxers back then smoking between rounds...yep, they were in better shape. Dear god, end your life.

Yes people have always run but they haven't always been paid for running a mile. There were many potential great runners 100, 80, 60, 40 years ago but they didn't pursue that talent because there was no money in it.

Records are dropping because talented athletes see a way of getting money and fame from their talent. If Usain Bolt, or someone with his talent, was born in a small village in Jamaica 80 years ago there would have been even less of a chance than today that his talent would have been nutured and that he would have a chance to enter the record books.

[TheMagicMan]

Yes people have always run but they haven't always been paid for running a mile. There were many potential great runners 100, 80, 60, 40 years ago but they didn't pursue that talent because there was no money in it.

Records are dropping because talented athletes see a way of getting money and fame from their talent. If Usain Bolt, or someone with his talent, was born in a small village in Jamaica 80 years ago there would have been even less of a chance than today that his talent would have been nutured and that he would have a chance to enter the record books.

Are you on drugs, there used to be more than money involved, pride and force. Russians for example used to make athletes the highest compensated during their communist years. In the U.S. athletes have always been given scholarships and pushed to the forefront. Wow you guys are fools. Vitali would one hitter quitter jack johnson. It wouldnt even be a contest. He is better in every single way imaginable.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ubUrl4YU2QE

haha just look at his "highlights" 90% of his highlights are rabbit punches and him clinching. NOt to mention he keeps his hands so low haha, this dudes terrible. Jack Johnson is like Briggs without the skill.

[bklynboy]

Are you on drugs, there used to be more than money involved, pride and force. Russians for example used to make athletes the highest compensated during their communist years. In the U.S. athletes have always been given scholarships and pushed to the forefront. Wow you guys are fools. Vitali would one hitter quitter jack johnson. It wouldnt even be a contest. He is better in every single way imaginable.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ubUrl4YU2QE

haha just look at his "highlights" 90% of his highlights are rabbit punches and him clinching. NOt to mention he keeps his hands so low haha, this dudes terrible. Jack Johnson is like Briggs without the skill.

The world is larger than the US and the USSR. Yes starting in the 1950s the USSR, the Eastern Block countries and later in the 1960s Cuba (with Soviet money) developed a sports program.

The US lagged way behind the Soviet Union in this. Ali, for example. almost never got to the Olympics. Even so the amount of professional athletes in the world has gone up tremendously in the last few decades.

[boxing boy]

TheMagicMan has preformed magic and has vanished,deciding not to answer my posts since he knows he was proved wrong and made to look like the fool he is.

TheMagicMan has taken over as the most whacked out and delusional poster on this forum,hands down.