Pacquiao Or Ross?

[jrosales13]

It is Barney Ross.

[Fighting Marine]

I would have no problem with boxing fans ranking Pacquiao higher than Ross. Pacquiao has accomplished just as much or even more than Ross.

[JAB5239]

I would have no problem with boxing fans ranking Pacquiao higher than Ross. Pacquiao has accomplished just as much or even more than Ross.

As much as I like Pac he's never unified a division and Ross beat the better prime fighters during his career. Ross > Pac.

[Fighting Marine]

As much as I like Pac he's never unified a division and Ross beat the better prime fighters during his career. Ross > Pac.

We can both agree Barney's 2 best wins are over Jimmy McLarnin and Tony Canzoneri??

Canzoneri was robbed in their first fight. Not to mention he climbed more weightclasses and was thus the naturally smaller man. He also had more fights and wear and tear when they fought. I might even consider him post prime at that point. Ross only managed a SD victory over the smaller man.

Ross did beat McLarnin 2 out of 3 times but in the the 3rd fight McLarnin was just a washed up fading champ.

IMO even Canzoneri ranks higher than Ross based on depth of resume and longevity.

[JAB5239]

We can both agree Barney's 2 best wins are over Jimmy McLarnin and Tony Canzoneri??

Yes.

Canzoneri was robbed in their first fight. Not to mention he climbed more weightclasses and was thus the naturally smaller man.

Canzoneri is widely considered one of the greatest lightweight ever. How do you figure he was robbed? All reports from the day claimed a very close fight with Ross being the deserving winner. Have you read something that suggests otherwise?

He also had more fights and wear and tear when they fought. I might even consider him post prime at that point. Ross only managed a SD victory of the smaller man.

Sorry but Canzoneri was 24 for the first Ross fight and went on afterwards to beat Klick, Arizmendy, Kid Chocolate, Ambers and McLarnin. If that post prime than you need to take Morales, Barrera and Marquez of Pacs resume, no?

Ross did beat McLarnin 2 out of 3 times but in the the 3rd fight McLarnin was just a washed up fading champ.

McLarnin beat prime legends Canzoneri and Lou Ambers in his last two fights, are you kidding me?

IMO Canzoneri ranks higher than Ross based on depth of resume and longevity.

Canzoneri is up there and probably close, but he still falls short of Ross in my opinion.

[Fighting Marine]

Yes.


Canzoneri is widely considered one of the greatest lightweight ever. How do you figure he was robbed? All reports from the day claimed a very close fight with Ross being the deserving winner. Have you read something that suggests otherwise?

Canzoneri is without a doubt one of the great lightweights but that still does not take away from the fact he was the smaller man. I do remember reading an article which claimed Tony was the winner but can't seem to remember the site. A MD and SD victory win over a post-prime, smaller champ is exactly that and should not be overhyped.

Sorry but Canzoneri was 24 for the first Ross fight and went on afterwards to beat Klick, Arizmendy, Kid Chocolate, Ambers and McLarnin. If that post prime than you need to take Morales, Barrera and Marquez of Pacs resume, no?

Muhammad Ali was post prime after his return from exile. He managed to defeat George Foreman, Joe Frazier, Ken Norton, Oscar Bonavena, Ernie Shavers, Ron Lyle. It is not impossible to rack up significant wins past your prime.

MAB was prime in his first fight with Pacquiao. So was JMM. Morales was post prime in their first fight and he managed to defeat Pac. In their 2nd fight Morales was shot and weight drained.

McLarnin beat prime legends Canzoneri and Lou Ambers in his last two fights, are you kidding me?

That is a lie. Canzoneri was not in his prime when he lost to McLarnin. McLarnin was 3-3 in his last 6 fights. There is absolutely no way he was 'prime' in his 3rd fight with Ross.

Canzoneri is up there and probably close, but he still falls short of Ross in my opinion.

Fair enough if that is your opinion.

[JAB5239]

[QUOTE]

Canzoneri is without a doubt one of the great lightweights but that still does not take away from the fact he was the smaller man. I do remember reading an article which claimed Tony was the winner but can't seem to remember the site. A MD and SD victory win over a post-prime, smaller champ is exactly that and should not be overhyped.

He was a lightweight and one of the best ever. He was also only 24 years old. Your argument doesn't hold water.

Muhammad Ali was post prime after his return from exile. He managed to defeat George Foreman, Joe Frazier, Ken Norton, Oscar Bonavena, Ernie Shavers, Ron Lyle. It is not impossible to rack up significant wins past your prime.

I've never bought into the argument Ali was past his prime. Certainly not peak, but still on top of his game.

That is a lie. Canzoneri was not in his prime when he lost to McLarnin. McLarnin was 3-3 in his last 6 fights. There is absolutely no way he was 'prime' in his 3rd fight with Ross.

McLarnin was 27, and what you fail to realize is those last 6 fights were against ATG, HOF fighters also in their prime. How is that a lie?

[Fighting Marine]

[QUOTE]

He was a lightweight and one of the best ever. He was also only 24 years old. Your argument doesn't hold water.

My arguement that he wasn't in his prime and that he had wear and tear? That is a very precise observation on my part. Your argument that he was 'only 24 so he must be prime' doesn't hold water.

I've never bought into the argument Ali was past his prime. Certainly not peak, but still on top of his game.

You can think of it how you will. More people are of the belief Ali was never the same and certainly not prime after his 3 and a half year banishment.

McLarnin was 27, and what you fail to realize is those last 6 fights were against ATG, HOF fighters also in their prime. How is that a lie?

Your claim that McLarnin was 'prime' in his 3rd fight with Ross is indeed poor judgement. Miguel Cotto is 29 years old and 3-2 in his last 5 fights. Many consider him to be post-prime. But according to your logic because his losses were to other Great fighters, Antonio Margarito and Manny Pacquiao, he must be still in his prime?? I mean c'mon. He is only 29.

[JAB5239]

[QUOTE]

My arguement that he wasn't in his prime and that he had wear and tear? That is a very precise observation on my part. Your argument that he was 'only 24 so he must be prime' doesn't hold water.

No, my argument that not only was he just 24 but competing and still winning at the highest level. Losses to Ross prove nothing except that he was beaten by the better man.

Your claim that McLarnin was 'prime' in his 3rd fight with Ross is indeed poor judgement. Miguel Cotto is 29 years old and 3-2 in his last 5 fights. Many consider him to be post-prime. But according to your logic because his losses were to other Great fighters, Antonio Margarito and Manny Pacquiao, he must be still in his prime?? I mean c'mon. He is only 29.

Miguel Cotto isn't beating two prime p4p alltime greats at this point, is he?

[Calilloyd]

Who should be remembered as the greater fighter/rank higher on a ATG list, Manny Pacquiao or Barney Ross?

Ross. Pacquaio would have to do a lot more to catch Ross in my opinion.