Could Muhammad Ali beat Joe Louis after his 3 1/2 year lay-off?

[JAB5239]

I didnt say better, just different. But its a difference that would make a difference.

I just don't see how. Joe was faster, hit harder, threw better combo's, had a better jab, was better defensively and equal in the chin department to Norton. How could he not compete with Ali, but Norton could?

[MBL]

Louis got put on his arse by a middleweight id say Ali would take his head off even after his hands were ****ed from the layoff

[JAB5239]

Louis got put on his arse by a middleweight id say Ali would take his head off even after his hands were ****ed from the layoff

Really? What middleweight put him on his ass?

[mickey malone]

I just don't see how. Joe was faster, hit harder, threw better combo's, had a better jab, was better defensively and equal in the chin department to Norton. How could he not compete with Ali, but Norton could?

That nails it.. Joe Louis beats any version of Ali 74 and onwards, but my money would have been on Ali before the lay off..
Anyone who believes Louis loses to every version of Ali is deluding themselves..

[M26]

The Muhammad Ali of 1971 was still fast and sharp, though not nearly as mobile and elusive as the pre-exile version. He got tagged alot more and could not stay on his toes all night like he used to.

Against Joe Louis, Ali would face an opponent who knew every trick in the book. He was a marverlous counterpuncher and had incredible reflexes. I see him countering Alis blitzing attacks, much like Ken Norton. Difference is, Louis would counter with more speed, explosiveness, power and precision. Plus, with Alis fading speed of foot, Ali would not be able to come in, land and slide out of harms way without getting tagged like he did in the 60s. Moving in on a prime Joe Louis spells distaster for most fighters, post-exile Ali included.

Many talk about Louis' slow feet. I agree, Louis was not a fast mover. He was how ever, an efficient mover. He had very good footwork and was very adapt at cutting off the ring. Adding his unmatched skill, his reflexes, fast hands and superb power, I see him giving Ali hell.

People say Ali survived the onslaught of Frazier, Foreman and Shavers without getting stopped. All true, and Ali had a granite chin, but Louis was a better puncher. Maybe not a harder puncher, but a better one. When Louis threw a punch, the punch landed. And anybody can get knocked out giving the circumstances, including Ali. Ali got tagged, hurt and nearly kayoed in round 11 against Frazier in 71. If this were a prime Louis, Ali would most likely get stopped in that round. I have never seen anybody better at finishing a hurting foe than Joe Louis. And Ali would never be able to lay on the ropes against a marksman like Louis. If he did, he would find himself on the canvas for keeps in just a few rounds. You dont cover up on the ropes against someone with the precision of Louis. He would shred a rope-a-dope Ali to bits with jolting shots to the head and body, landing in short, explosive combinations.

I see Muhammad Ali taking the first 3-4 rounds, not doing much damage though. Louis did not cut easily, and he would block and parry many of Alis punches. Ali would still be in the lead heading into round 5, but would slow down rapidly from here. This is pretty much a fact; post-exile Ali never could dance effectively for many rounds. Slowing down and without a proper defence, facing someone as formidable as Louis, Ali would be in trouble. I see Louis landing more and more telling punches, only to force a stoppage in the later rounds. Possibly the brave and iron-chinned Ali would finish standing on his feet, with the ref or Alis corner calling it a day. If Ali somehow managed to survive the fight, I see him losing by decision.

A few years back I argued that prime Joe Louis would defeat a prime Muhammad Ali. Since then I have become unsure, as I can see the argument of Alis incredible speed and mobility giving him the edge. The young Ali was almost untouchable and kept up the pace for 15 rounds.

How ever, the post-exile version of Ali would not defeat Joe Louis, of this I am almost certain.

Joe Louis by tko12.

[fight_professor]

We will have to agree to disagree.

[res]

I just don't see how. Joe was faster, hit harder, threw better combo's, had a better jab, was better defensively and equal in the chin department to Norton. How could he not compete with Ali, but Norton could?

Because none of those attributes (and i don't buy that Louis had a speed advantage over Norton) were the key to Ali's problems with Norton. The key was Norton's peculiar style. Norton had a style that was just problematic for Boxer punchers.

[JAB5239]

Because none of those attributes (and i don't buy that Louis had a speed advantage over Norton) were the key to Ali's problems with Norton. The key was Norton's peculiar style. Norton had a style that was just problematic for Boxer punchers.

You don't have to buy that Louis was faster than Norton. But it was the opinion of most experts and historians that Louis was and still is amongst the 5 fastest heavyweights ever. Not for nothing, but I've never seen Norton on any of those lists.

As far as Nortons style goes..it was designed to be like Louis' stlye by Eddie Futch, only Ken didn't hit as hard or as fast and didn't have quite as good a jab. So if that was problematic for Ali its only logical to think Louis would be also, and more so.

[res]

You don't have to buy that Louis was faster than Norton. But it was the opinion of most experts and historians that Louis was and still is amongst the 5 fastest heavyweights ever. Not for nothing, but I've never seen Norton on any of those lists.

As far as Nortons style goes..it was designed to be like Louis' stlye by Eddie Futch, only Ken didn't hit as hard or as fast and didn't have quite as good a jab. So if that was problematic for Ali its only logical to think Louis would be also, and more so.

Nortons' unique unorthodox crab style is quite unlike Louis' orthodox Boxer-puncher style. it is pretty obvious if you just watch both of them fight for a few seconds.

Joe Louis is occasionally put on all kinds of "best of" lists simply because he is Joe Louis. In general though, those lists are usually about the fastest "greatest" heavyweights, they are not just talking about any heavyweights. Look as i said before, any slower Boxer puncher is going to be an underdog against Ali, especially if he's smaller and Ali can completely control him on the inside, while exploiting a superior reach on the outside.

[fight_professor]

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You don't have to buy that Louis was faster than Norton. But it was the opinion of most experts and historians that Louis was and still is amongst the 5 fastest heavyweights ever. Not for nothing, but I've never seen Norton on any of those lists.

Bro, I respect you and all, but you can ONLY be refering to hand speed! Surely not foot speed.

If JL is in the top 5, and Ali is Usian Bolt, JL is the equivalent of me in the 100m-something like 20 seconds.

Even hand speed, Patterson and Mike have faster hands. I'm sure there are others too. Patterson's speed to my eyes is 2nd only to Ali.

I agree with Res. It was Ken's lean and sway that off set Ali's game. Joe Louis didnt employ that. Punchers destroyed Ken, boxers had trouble. He gave Ali and Holmes hell. I believe both Ali and Larry easily beat Joe Louis.