Grade Joe Fraziers resume

[EzzardFan]

I rated him a B+in the grand scheme of things. He has several very good names on his resume:

Ali - in all honesty I feel that the 3rd fight was really a draw. Neither fighter could have gotten up for the next round. Both fighters and both trainers acknowledge that.
Ellis
Quarry
Chuvalo - a tough customer
Machen - a great boxer although past it by then
Foster - ATG LHW
Bugner - decent boxer and no push over
Bonavena - very big tough man.
Foreman - no shame in losing to foreman. To accuse Joe of ducking big punchers is nonsense when he went back for a second helping from George. He's a braver man than I am. He also did better here than Patterson managed against Liston.

I marked him down slightly for several reasons, some of them out with his control:

1) He is missing a few names that he could of had there if he'd fought more frequently. Patterson would have been a great fight. Liston was still active back then, and still a force. Norton would have been interesting (but they ducked each other LOL). Ernie Shavers is missing too.

2) He didn't total very many career fights... having said that a pressure fighter does tend to have a shorter career because of the damage they must endure, and he's clearly affected.

3)He never had the opportunity to face a prime Ali. This isn't his fault. We probably never saw a prime Ali, the closest would have been the Terrell or Williams fights.

4) Foreman clearly had his number, no getting away from it.

5) I was considering his resume in absolute terms not relative to the era in which he fought. Unfortunately very few HWs have genuinely fought in a strong era and cleared out their division, only Ali would warrant an A in my opinion. Joe Louis was a great fighter, but between winning the title and fighting Walcott in 1947 he was only permitted to defend against one black opponent (and a very past it probably blind one at that).

in no order and regardless of win or loss.also keeping in mind i dont believe their have even been 15 truly great heavys and frazier would make the bottom of my 10-15 by default.

ali
foreman
holyfield
ray mercer
lewis
patterson
ezard charles
liston
wlad
vitali
holmes
bowe

guys like the klits,and homes make my list cause i dont fault them for the eras they fought in.they fought everybody you could have possibly asked.but if ranked in an order of 1-15,frazier would make my list towrds the bottom based primarily off of prime foreman and 1st ali fight

ROFLMMFAO! For a moment I thought he'd spelt Louis wrong. Mercer, both the Klits, and Bowe??? WTF??? Patterson and Holyfield are also stretching it IMO. Great entertainment value though

[JAB5239]

I rated him a B+in the grand scheme of things. He has several very good names on his resume:

Ali - in all honesty I feel that the 3rd fight was really a draw. Neither fighter could have gotten up for the next round. Both fighters and both trainers acknowledge that.
Ellis
Quarry
Chuvalo - a tough customer
Machen - a great boxer although past it by then
Foster - ATG LHW
Bugner - decent boxer and no push over
Bonavena - very big tough man.
Foreman - no shame in losing to foreman. To accuse Joe of ducking big punchers is nonsense when he went back for a second helping from George. He's a braver man than I am. He also did better here than Patterson managed against Liston.

I marked him down slightly for several reasons, some of them out with his control:

1) He is missing a few names that he could of had there if he'd fought more frequently. Patterson would have been a great fight. Liston was still active back then, and still a force. Norton would have been interesting (but they ducked each other LOL). Ernie Shavers is missing too.

2) He didn't total very many career fights... having said that a pressure fighter does tend to have a shorter career because of the damage they must endure, and he's clearly affected.

3)He never had the opportunity to face a prime Ali. This isn't his fault. We probably never saw a prime Ali, the closest would have been the Terrell or Williams fights.

4) Foreman clearly had his number, no getting away from it.

5) I was considering his resume in absolute terms not relative to the era in which he fought. Unfortunately very few HWs have genuinely fought in a strong era and cleared out their division, only Ali would warrant an A in my opinion. Joe Louis was a great fighter, but between winning the title and fighting Walcott in 1947 he was only permitted to defend against one black opponent (and a very at it probably blind one at that).



ROFLMMFAO! For a moment I thought he'd spelt Louis wrong. Mercer, both the Klits, and Bowe??? WTF??? Patterson and Holyfield are also stretching it IMO. Great entertainment value though

Very good post, very objective.

[r.burgundy]

I rated him a B+in the grand scheme of things. He has several very good names on his resume:

Ali - in all honesty I feel that the 3rd fight was really a draw. Neither fighter could have gotten up for the next round. Both fighters and both trainers acknowledge that.
Ellis
Quarry
Chuvalo - a tough customer
Machen - a great boxer although past it by then
Foster - ATG LHW
Bugner - decent boxer and no push over
Bonavena - very big tough man.
Foreman - no shame in losing to foreman. To accuse Joe of ducking big punchers is nonsense when he went back for a second helping from George. He's a braver man than I am. He also did better here than Patterson managed against Liston.

I marked him down slightly for several reasons, some of them out with his control:

1) He is missing a few names that he could of had there if he'd fought more frequently. Patterson would have been a great fight. Liston was still active back then, and still a force. Norton would have been interesting (but they ducked each other LOL). Ernie Shavers is missing too.

2) He didn't total very many career fights... having said that a pressure fighter does tend to have a shorter career because of the damage they must endure, and he's clearly affected.

3)He never had the opportunity to face a prime Ali. This isn't his fault. We probably never saw a prime Ali, the closest would have been the Terrell or Williams fights.

4) Foreman clearly had his number, no getting away from it.

5) I was considering his resume in absolute terms not relative to the era in which he fought. Unfortunately very few HWs have genuinely fought in a strong era and cleared out their division, only Ali would warrant an A in my opinion. Joe Louis was a great fighter, but between winning the title and fighting Walcott in 1947 he was only permitted to defend against one black opponent (and a very past it probably blind one at that).



ROFLMMFAO! For a moment I thought he'd spelt Louis wrong. Mercer, both the Klits, and Bowe??? WTF??? Patterson and Holyfield are also stretching it IMO. Great entertainment value though

regardless of who you feel belongs,point being is that smokin joe doesnt have a atg resume.he got a b- from me.and as i said earlier,i fancy cleanin out a division over fighting to great guys and missing plenty good 1's

[r.burgundy]

[B]

Holmes fought everyone, huh? I guess the names Page, Coetzee, Dokes and Tubbs don't ring a bell amongst others. Don't ever challenge me son.

by your logic why we would he need to fight them lol?he wouldve beat them anyways just like smokin joe right?

i mean cause by your logic since dokes lost to coatzee,who lost to mike weaver,who lost to 300 year old holmes,not to mention who also lost to pinklon thomas,but was stopped by berbick,whom lost to holmes what would they point be??lol,again this is your logic

[JAB5239]

regardless of who you feel belongs,point being is that smokin joe doesnt have a atg resume.he got a b- from me.and as i said earlier,i fancy cleanin out a division over fighting to great guys and missing plenty good 1's

But he didn't miss plenty of good ones. You've failed to address the circumstances of why the Lyle, Foster and Shavers fights were not made and ignore that Ali and Foreman were bigger fights against better opponents. In other words you're penalizing him for fighting better competition. How can that even make sense to you?

Oh, and you never responded to my rebuttal on Larry Holmes resume. What happened there?

[r.burgundy]

But he didn't miss plenty of good ones. You've failed to address the circumstances of why the Lyle, Foster and Shavers fights were not made and ignore that Ali and Foreman were bigger fights against better opponents. In other words you're penalizing him for fighting better competition. How can that even make sense to you?

Oh, and you never responded to my rebuttal on Larry Holmes resume. What happened there?

you claim those circumstances are that they werent big fights at the time.well in the supposed golden era of haevys were everybody fought everybody,that would be ducking.

and my response about holmes is right above your last post

[JAB5239]

by your logic why we would he need to fight them lol?he wouldve beat them anyways just like smokin joe right?

i mean cause by your logic since dokes lost to coatzee,who lost to mike weaver,who lost to 300 year old holmes,not to mention who also lost to pinklon thomas,but was stopped by berbick,whom lost to holmes what would they point be??lol,again this is your logic

Nah, that isn't my logic. But I like how you're trying to twist things to save yourself further embarrassment. You should just quit while you still have a tiny shred of dignity left. You've been owned!

[JAB5239]

you claim those circumstances are that they werent big fights at the time.well in the supposed golden era of haevys were everybody fought everybody,that would be ducking.

and my response about holmes is right above your last post

No son, it wouldn't be ducking, wasn't considered ducking and only thought of as ducking by those with a biased agenda.

And your Holmes response ******. You've been turned out son.

[r.burgundy]

Nah, that isn't my logic. But I like how you're trying to twist things to save yourself further embarrassment. You should just quit while you still have a tiny shred of dignity left. You've been owned!

that isnt your logic lmao.thats your whole argument for him not fighting lyle,shavers,and young lol

[r.burgundy]

No son, it wouldn't be ducking, wasn't considered ducking and only thought of as ducking by those with a biased agenda.

And your Holmes response ******. You've been turned out son.

so now,nobody ever ducked anybody lol.give it up man

my response to holmes was the same as yours as to why he never fought lyles,etc.he fought bigger fights.lol hang it up.i'll keep using your own ****** logic