Grade Joe Fraziers resume

[JAB5239]

are those not you words lol?was larry not the recognized champ?so using your own logic,which you kep trying to change from post to post.1 more time cause your learning impaired.look at your own words.holmes beat weaver,thomas and morrison who in turn beats dokes,coetzee,and page.get it yet?so if smokin joe fought everybody,then so did larry.

You really are this ******, aren't you. As I've already stated, Frazier passed on these fights for such legitimate reasons as yes Quarry beating these guys, but more importantly to make ]bigger and tougher fights. Now in the case of Holmes....what is a bigger fight than unifying with another champion, and how were fighters like Spinks, Marvis Frazier and Lorenzo Zanon more deserving?

[Snopkins]

Isn't it convenient how you just forget about all the other tough fighters he took on including punchers like Bonovena and Chuvalo who were both considered heavy handed during those 37 fights. And during that period of time after Quarry, who we already know beat all your favorite that Frazier didn't need to fight, Frazier took on bigger and tougher fights with Ali and Foreman. All this has been explained to you before, you just keep clinging to you excuses to hate.

Chuvalo and bonavena were not punchers.Quarry fought them because frazier wouldn't.Mac foster would fade into obscurity after losses to Quarry and Ali but the likes of Ron Lyle and even Earnie Shavers remained contenders when frazier was at the same level as they were without his title.

Lol, yeah Frazier couldn't have had any balls, he only fought the hardest puncher in history twice and kept trying to get back up every time. And Ali's style was much more conducive to fighting more often, another fact you like to over look.

An elite fighter fighting just twice a year against hand picked opposition is pathetic and there's no excuse for it.

Frazier fought virtually every contender from 1968-1971, and that INCLUDES Ali, you dope. So much for your cherry picking theory.

I suggest you look up the rankings themselves and see just how wrong you are.

frazier wasn't active enough to have "fought virtually every contender" during those years.

Were they also trained by the same trainer making the fight THAT much harder to make?

Yes they were.Angelo Dundee even worked Jimmy Ellis's corner against Ali.


Eddie futch left Norton and left to work with frazier permanently following Norton's rematch with Ali.

[JAB5239]

Chuvalo and bonavena were not punchers.Quarry fought them because frazier wouldn't.Mac foster would fade into obscurity after losses to Quarry and Ali but the likes of Ron Lyle and even Earnie Shavers remained contenders when frazier was at the same level as they were without his title.

Both Chuvalo and Bonavena were considered very heavy handed and their ko%'s are testament to that.

And again, why would Frazier take a step down to fight Lyle or Shavers instead of fighting the two most dangerous fighters in the world? Give credit where its due.

An elite fighter fighting just twice a year against hand picked opposition is pathetic and there's no excuse for it.

This is so easy for you to say when you refuse to make any kind of list of your own, therefore avoiding any kind of criticism. It unfortunate you won't take Fraziers style of fighting into consideration. If you did you would know it wasn't conducive to fighting as often as many other fighters.

I suggest you look up the rankings themselves and see just how wrong you are.

frazier wasn't active enough to have "fought virtually every contender" during those years.

Saying he fought every contender may be an exaggeration, but it is undeniable he fought many of them.

Yes they were.Angelo Dundee even worked Jimmy Ellis's corner against Ali.

Well that is news to me. It pains me to say it, but thank you.

Eddie futch left Norton and left to work with frazier permanently following Norton's rematch with Ali.

Assuming this is correct, when was Frazier supposed to fight Norton? He lost to Foreman, rematched Foreman and fought Ali. After that we all know he was a shot fighter so when do you suppose they should have fought? And don't tell me they could have fought any time before Ken and Ali first met. Norton was still fighting second tier fighters and wasn't thought of as a threat till the first Ali fight.

[Snopkins]

Both Chuvalo and Bonavena were considered very heavy handed and their ko%'s are testament to that..

Knockout ratios don't mean anything.

And again, why would Frazier take a step down to fight Lyle or Shavers instead of fighting the two most dangerous fighters in the world? Give credit where its due..

Why would he take a step down to fight a shot Jimmy Ellis? Is Joe bugner a greater fighter than Ron Lyle?

This is so easy for you to say when you refuse to make any kind of list of your own, therefore avoiding any kind of criticism. It unfortunate you won't take Fraziers style of fighting into consideration. If you did you would know it wasn't conducive to fighting as often as many other fighters. .

This isn't Matthew Saad Muhammad we are talking about.frazier wasn't taking great punishment in each and every single out he fought in.He's a pressure fighter,so what?

[Suckmedry]

This isn't Matthew Saad Muhammad we are talking about.frazier wasn't taking great punishment in each and every single out he fought in.He's a pressure fighter,so what?

No, he didn't get hit as much as a guy like Muhammad, but as a guy constantly moving forward mixing it up he is going to get tagged a fair bit, even with the head movement he had. Plus he fought at an energy consuming pace. And all this against good fighters too, tends to wear you down.

[JAB5239]

Knockout ratios don't mean anything.

So what, are you denying the were both looked at as strong heavy handed fighters?

Why would he take a step down to fight a shot Jimmy Ellis? Is Joe bugner a greater fighter than Ron Lyle?

Bugner was a top 10 rated fighter. Its funny how you can find fault with Frazier fighting him after being annihilated by Foreman. As far as Ellis goes.....Was Frazier not getting ready for the rubber match with Ali? Who's style was more indicative of Ali's style, Lyle or Ellis?

This isn't Matthew Saad Muhammad we are talking about.frazier wasn't taking great punishment in each and every single out he fought in.He's a pressure fighter,so what?

His whole style was conducive to a short career. If you ever fought in the ring before and tried it you would know this. Its funny how you say "so what" and just dismiss a career of wading into punches as not taking punishment. Because he wasn't getting ko'd every fight doesn't mean he wasn't taking punishment. You know this, you just keep denying it so you can hold on to something to keep hating "Smokin" Joe Frazier, one of the toughest and greatest fighters in boxing history.

[Snopkins]

So what, are you denying the were both looked at as strong heavy handed fighters?.

Strong fighters,but not particularly strong punchers.

Bugner was a top 10 rated fighter. Its funny how you can find fault with Frazier fighting him after being annihilated by Foreman. As far as Ellis goes.....Was Frazier not getting ready for the rubber match with Ali? Who's style was more indicative of Ali's style, Lyle or Ellis?

He fought bugner after seeing how effective the normally on his toes,back peddling Ali was at pressing the action against bugner.Even then he had his issues with bugner.I don't fault frazier for fighting bugner,I fault frazier for avoiding punchers like Ron Lyle.



In three months,Ali took three tune ups for Manila,all three were rated in the top ten rankings.The shot and irrelevant Jimmy Ellis wasn't.So in nearly two years,frazier fought just two rated contenders in his division(Quarry and Ali)

His whole style was conducive to a short career. If you ever fought in the ring before and tried it you would know this. Its funny how you say "so what" and just dismiss a career of wading into punches as not taking punishment. Because he wasn't getting ko'd every fight doesn't mean he wasn't taking punishment. You know this, you just keep denying it so you can hold on to something to keep hating "Smokin" Joe Frazier, one of the toughest and greatest fighters in boxing history.

Most fighters take punishment in the ring.frazier is hardly the first and only fighter of his style.It doesn't take months up months to recover from his one sided domination over Jerry Quarry for example.


You call frazier one of the greatest fighters in boxing history and he's quite clearly not.



People will forget Joe frazier,and the sport will be alot cleaner when he is forgotten.

[JAB5239]

Strong fighters,but not particularly strong punchers.

So they were strong fighters with good ko percentages, but they weren't good punchers, is that it?

He fought bugner after seeing how effective the normally on his toes,back peddling Ali was at pressing the action against bugner.Even then he had his issues with bugner.

No, he fought Bugner because he was coming off a loss and wanted a top 10 fighter. Upon further review Lyle was tied up with Peralta and than 17-9-5 Wendell Newton in June and 17-37-5 Lou Bailey the day AFTER Frazier fought Bugner. Once again, your time line doesn't add up. So while Frazier was fighting the likes of Foreman and a top 10 rated Bugner, Lyle was fighting tomato cans. And between that and the time line you insist Frazier should have fought him? That makes no sense what so ever.

I don't fault Frazier for fighting Bugner,I fault Frazier for avoiding punchers like Ron Lyle.

He fought better fighters, you cannot change that. When he wasn't fighting better fighters the time line doesn't add up or you so called punchers were not in a position to make the fight happen. What do you not understand about that?

In three months,Ali took three tune ups for Manila,all three were rated in the top ten rankings.The shot and irrelevant Jimmy Ellis wasn't.So in nearly two years,frazier fought just two rated contenders in his division(Quarry and Ali)

This isn't about how often he fought, but his overall resume. Nice try in trying to twist the subject though.

Most fighters take punishment in the ring.frazier is hardly the first and only fighter of his style.It doesn't take months up months to recover from his one sided domination over Jerry Quarry for example.

How would you know? And how do you know there were no other injuries suffered in camp or at other times in his career?

You call frazier one of the greatest fighters in boxing history and he's quite clearly not.

Sorry son but every boxing historian, expert and boxers themselves, including Ali, disagree with you.

People will forget Joe frazier,and the sport will be alot cleaner when he is forgotten.

Nah, people will never forget a man involved in 2 of the greatest heavyweight fights ever. You keep dreaming though.

[JAB5239]

Any new opinions on this?

[Vadrigar.]

Any new opinions on this?

I was just skim reading through your debate in this thread and I gotta say, the idiocy was funny.

BTW I haven't changed, I still rank Fraizer as an "A" resume.