Ali is greater than Robinson

[Schmerzen]

66-3 52 KOs, nuff said
49-0 43 KOs, nuff said

Poet

u just compared wladimir with joe louis and marciano, so u admit he is an ATG ?

[Fiasco]

That's still a one-off fight by definition.

You took the word "chance" too seriously.

In other words, they would have a very good case at beating a prime Robinson. Less fighters have a very good case at beating a prime Ali.

Hmmm. I would give Louis, Johnson, and Holmes a fair chance of winning. Ali was the top Heavyweight of all time but he wasn't unbeatable.

That's a total of three. I gave five for Robinson.

[StarshipTrooper]

You took the word "chance" too seriously.

I read it by it's generally accepted definition and unlike yourself didn't make leaps of logic such as interpreting "favor" to mean "no chance".

In other words, they would have a very good case at beating a prime Robinson. Less fighters have a very good case at beating a prime Ali. That's a total of three. I gave five for Robinson.

I wasn't bean-counting when I named those three: Those happend to be the first three that came to mind. Considering that there's been significantly more great Middleweights than great Heavyweights throughout history the fact that you've pulled two more names out of your ass is statistically insignificant.

Poet

[Snopkins]

66-3 52 KOs, nuff said

Poet

That's quite a disappointing knockout record when you think about it.Joe Louis is supposed to be the greatest puncher of all time and yet thirteen of his fights went the distance.


Wladimir should have more knockouts by the time he is retired and he wouldn't have needed as many fights as Louis did

[StarshipTrooper]

That's quite a disappointing knockout record when you think about it.Joe Louis is supposed to be the greatest puncher of all time and yet thirteen of his fights went the distance.

Wladimir should have more knockouts by the time he is retired and he wouldn't have needed as many fights as Louis did

About ready for your next ban huh?

Poet

[EzzardFan]

and when people say ali would beat tyson prime vs prime, i persuade that if ali struggled with joe fraser who stays low/bob weaves/throws power hooks/ that mike tyson does all those things better than fraser and has a good right hand and uppercuts too. i cant see ali winning it more than 1 out of 5 fights if they fought over and over...and thats if his fighting like his cassius clay days

We never saw Ali in his prime because he was barred from fighting during that period. The best we saw of Ali was in '66 & '67. He didn't fight Frazier until '71.

Okay.. now let us do the important math. Which elite prime fighters did Robinson beat?

Gavilan
LaMotta
Graziano
Fullmer
Basilio
Turpin
Olson
Angott

Now compare those 7 with the 7 most prime elite fighters on Ali's resume:

Foreman
Frazier
Liston
Patterson
Norton
Terrell
Ellis
Quarry

I think it's safe to say that, overall, the majority of the people on Ali's resume are better than the ones on Robinson's resume.

Heavyweight fighters generate more interest that the other weight divisions, and as a result are generally better known, particularly 1970s vintage du to Ali being a great self publicist. Many people on this forum can comfortably reel off the names of all the HW champions from JLS onwards from memory. Very few could do the same with the fighters from other weight classes. None of this means that heavyweights are technically better fighters, they are just better known.

The difference is that back in SRRs era boxers engaged in many more and many more frequent contests. There were many more professional boxers active during SRR's era than there were during Ali's era. The quality of opposition was clearly much higher. SRR fought many more times than Ali did.

For my money Foreman, Frazier, Liston, Patterson, Norton, Terrell, Ellis, and Quarry were technically nothing special when compared to the majority of fighters active in the first 60 years of this century. Ali was a standout due to his chin, his recuperative powers, his reflexes, his speed, and his evasive skills. But when he lost the reflexes, speed, and evasive capability all that was left was a very tough guy able to withstand enormous punishment. Fortunately for Ali as the process occurred the division had also become progressively weaker.

SRR is an altogether different proposition. He was every bit as tough as Ali (the only time he failed to finish a fight on his feet was when fighting a much larger man in scorching heat), but he also had the technical skills to carry on fighting top opposition long after his reflexes had headed South. He not only regained his title several times, he also successfully defended it many times. There really is no comparison.

Ali is a lot like the top fighters of today, a great natural physical talent, but lacking in technical skill. SRR could tick both boxes.

[rskumm21]

Oh.. so a prime SRL has no chance against Robinson at welterweight?

A middleweight version of Jones, Hagler, Monzon and Greb have no chance, right?

If you using theoretical opinion as one of the main points of your argument when comparing two boxers, you kind of lose all credibility in my book. Don't get me wrong, I love both Ali and Robinson equal, but you cant say that one guy is better than another based on who has the better record in "fantasy fights". Where's the logic in that?

[Fiasco]

I read it by it's generally accepted definition and unlike yourself didn't make leaps of logic such as interpreting "favor" to mean "no chance".

Are you perhaps hurt that I proved you wrong? In that there are more fighters who have a good chance at beating Robinson than there are for Ali?

I wasn't bean-counting when I named those three: Those happend to be the first three that came to mind. Considering that there's been significantly more great Middleweights than great Heavyweights throughout history the fact that you've pulled two more names out of your ass is statistically insignificant.

I can name more, for Robinson. I bet you can't, for Ali.

[Fiasco]

If you using theoretical opinion as one of the main points of your argument when comparing two boxers, you kind of lose all credibility in my book. Don't get me wrong, I love both Ali and Robinson equal, but you cant say that one guy is better than another based on who has the better record in "fantasy fights". Where's the logic in that?

That's not the ONLY reason to suggest one is better than the other. It's only one part of the argument.

[StarshipTrooper]

Are you perhaps hurt that I proved you wrong? In that there are more fighters who have a good chance at beating Robinson than there are for Ali?

So let me get this straight: Making an idiot of yourself with your lack of reading comprehension and leaps of logic is proving me wrong? Okay Junior. I've just had my laugh for the day

Poet