Ali is greater than Robinson

[StarshipTrooper]

After reading #2 I really couldn't take anything else you said serious.

I can't recall ever favoring anyone south of Light-Heavyweight over Robinson in a fantasy fight.

Poet

[StarshipTrooper]

Zivic's career downfall, not long after, suggests that your theory is wrong.

I believe GreatA addressed this.

I thought a boxing historian would know that age has nothing to do with how good a fighter is. Fighters age differently.

He never said otherwise.

Go ahead and ask some other historians if they agree with you.

Most boxing historians in fact DO agree with him as Robinson is the consesus choice as greatest p4p fighter among boxing historians.

That fact is that they were contenders and/or journeymen and not in any elite position. You may think they're good second-rate fighters, but their accomplishments and records clearly suggest that they don't belong with the elites.

Please. As great as Ali's resume is he still fought his share of lesser lights.

Yes, and Ali being over 30 and winning against the likes of Frazier, Norton and two of the hardest punchers in heavyweight history history in Foreman and Shavers is not a big deal, right?

And being damn near 40 and reclaiming the Middleweight crown is chopped liver?

Sorry, but as great a fighter as Gavilan was, he's not the best of either list. I think most people would agree with me.

Apparently you and they know very little about Gavilan. You don't watch any fights in black and white and can't be arsed to do any research huh?

Zivic and Armstrong weren't in their primes. If you wish to count past-prime fighters as full credited wins, you can leave me out of that.

Neither was Frazier in Manila nor was Liston for either fight nor was Patterson for either fight. And Williams was past it. And Folly. Archie Moore was damn near 50 ffs.

In case you didn't know, it's kind of hard for a natural heavyweight to win titles in more than one division.

Not the issue.

Ali didn't have 200 hundred fights, because he didn't need to, in his time. Elite fighters in Ali's era and eras after made enough money by just fighting 2 or 3 times a year. And in those 2 or 3 fights a year, they face top opposition, rather than lightly regarded journeymen or club fighters.

Again, he's not making that argument.

And don't act like all of Robinson's 200 fights were against champions, hall of famers and top contenders.

No was Ali's 60 some odd fights.

Since when does a fighter's style make him better than another fighter? Tyson and Frazier went to the body. Are they greater than Ali?

He isn't making a judgement about styles. Most fighters who aren't "body punchers" per say still through to the body as a matter of course.

Robinson was Ali's idol. It's understandable that he would say that. And since when is everything Ali says 100% fact? It's an opinion.

Did it ever occur to you he was Ali's idol for a reason?

Poet

[StarshipTrooper]

look at wladimir, dominating since years any1 he faced, but still is not even recognized as a top 5 p4p of today by some idiots.
they even question if he is a HOFer or not.

Getting KTFO by an over-the-hill pro-golfer (not to mention Ross ****ing Purrity) disbars a fighter from being considered great (not to mention a p4p canditate). In a real hall of fame (as opposed to the fan club that currently exists) Wlad would have to buy a ticket to get in.

Poet

[them_apples]

Ali was incredible. Robinson is just programed into historians brains as the default answer.

Fact is, you put him beside Ray Leonard and he looks like a poor mans version. Don't get me wrong, Robinson is great, but he get's worshipped like a god on this forum.

Robinson get's rated so high because he went something like 90-0 at one point, but to me that isn't as important as who you beat. Ali fought and beat the best. The best measured against all time currently..unless we run into a huge crop of amazing Hw's again.

Robinson never fought Leonard, Hearns, Duran, Mosely, DLH, Trinidad or even Benitez at WW.

[StarshipTrooper]

Ali was incredible. Robinson is just programed into historians brains as the default answer.

Fact is, you put him beside Ray Leonard and he looks like a poor mans version. Don't get me wrong, Robinson is great, but he get's worshipped like a god on this forum.

Robinson get's rated so high because he went something like 90-0 at one point, but to me that isn't as important as who you beat. Ali fought and beat the best. The best measured against all time currently..unless we run into a huge crop of amazing Hw's again.

Robinson never fought Leonard, Hearns, Duran, Mosely, DLH, Trinidad or even Benitez at WW.

I've watched both Robinson and Leonard many times of course, but as much as I respect Leonard's ability anything he could do Robinson could do better.

Poet

[Schmerzen]

Getting KTFO by an over-the-hill pro-golfer (not to mention Ross ****ing Purrity) disbars a fighter from being considered great (not to mention a p4p canditate). In a real hall of fame (as opposed to the fan club that currently exists) Wlad would have to buy a ticket to get in.

Poet

where u already in church, praying for wladimirs defeat tomorrow?
fact is wladimir is the heavyweight champ since 5 years, with more title denfenses than many great heavys from the past.
i dont think he will have to buy a ticket to get in the HOF, they will roll out a red carpet just for him after his boxing career is over.
i want a picture of your face expression at that moment, would bet too funny to see it

[The Beatles]

Getting KTFO by an over-the-hill pro-golfer (not to mention Ross ****ing Purrity) disbars a fighter from being considered great (not to mention a p4p canditate). In a real hall of fame (as opposed to the fan club that currently exists) Wlad would have to buy a ticket to get in.

Poet

didn't Joe Louis get knocked the **** out by an unknown German and an overrated Italian???

you're an ignorant fool if you think Wlad is not HOF material......get your head out your ass and give the man the credit he deserves........Wlad has been dominating his so called 'weak' era and that is more than enough to get you into the HOF

[Fiasco]

After reading #2 I really couldn't take anything else you said serious.

I can't recall ever favoring anyone south of Light-Heavyweight over Robinson in a fantasy fight.

Poet

Oh.. so a prime SRL has no chance against Robinson at welterweight?

A middleweight version of Jones, Hagler, Monzon and Greb have no chance, right?

[StarshipTrooper]

where u already in church, praying for wladimirs defeat tomorrow?

More like I had to check just now to see who he's fighting because frankly I couldn't care less.

fact is wladimir is the heavyweight champ since 5 years, with more title denfenses than many great heavys from the past.

That says more about the lack of quality in today's division than it does about the prowness of Vitali's little sister.

i dont think he will have to buy a ticket to get in the HOF, they will roll out a red carpet just for him after his boxing career is over. i want a picture of your face expression at that moment, would bet too funny to see it

I'm sure they will since the IBOF is a popularity contest and Wlad's demented nuthuggers like yourself will clamour for it. Like I said: "If we had a REAL hall-of-fame....."

Poet

[StarshipTrooper]

didn't Joe Louis get knocked the **** out by an unknown German and an overrated Italian???

The "unknown" German was a former Heavyweight champion. Sorry, you FAIL: Schmeling was well known in the US in the 1930s. I also seem to recall Louis icing him in a round in the rematch. The "overrated" Italian happend to be the only Heavweight champion to retire undefeated. Whether or not you think some rank him to highly is irrelivent, it can't be denied the man was an ATG. More to the point Louis was washed up when they fought.

you're an ignorant fool if you think Wlad is not HOF material......get your head out your ass and give the man the credit he deserves........Wlad has been dominating his so called 'weak' era and that is more than enough to get you into the HOF

"So called" weak era? Anyone with a brain KNOWS this is one of the weakest eras ever in Heavyweight history. You'd have to have tour head in your arse not to see it. As for Wlad getting into the IBOF......I have no doubt Arturo Gatti will get in since any fighter with a significant fan following is likely to get in. Which means Wlad, with his legions of delusional fan-bois will most likely as well. It doesn't say anything about Wlad but rather speaks volumes about the low standards of the IBOF.

Poet