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How does Joe Louis do against these fighters?

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  • StarshipTrooper
    replied
    Originally posted by frankenfrank View Post
    tua is a midget and mccall is barely technically decent and not very big himself , i meant klitschko/dimitrenko/valuev/mccline/lewis/grant/whitaker/bowe/etc sized with a good skill. not a carnera/austin/sanders/etc skill.
    Hey Gilligan, next time you might want to make sure you're in the green yourself before you try hitting me with red

    Poet

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  • frankenfrank
    replied
    Originally posted by TheGreatA View Post
    And were David Tua or Oliver McCall "technically decent superheavyweights in fine condition"? Don't change the subject here. Both have been beaten by crusierweights, light heavyweights, who is to say they wouldn't be beaten even worse by an all-time great heavyweight?
    tua is a midget and mccall is barely technically decent and not very big himself , i meant klitschko/dimitrenko/valuev/mccline/lewis/grant/whitaker/bowe/etc sized with a good skill. not a carnera/austin/sanders/etc skill.

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  • TheGreatA
    replied
    Originally posted by frankenfrank View Post
    of course they can compete today , against the likes of themselves.
    but whenever they step in the ring against a technically almost decent superheavy in a fine condition they lose.
    adamek can compete against chambers , haye can compete against ruiz , moorer could compete against jirov , but no one can compete against the klitschkos. sanders , puritty were almost natural heavys and brewster was quite of a fluke , and a roided one at that , and fighting a chinny wlad also helped.
    louis could outpoint mccall on some occasions , i suppose (not certain) , but mccall stopping louis is about as reasonable scenario.
    And were David Tua or Oliver McCall "technically decent superheavyweights in fine condition"? Don't change the subject here. Both have been beaten by crusierweights, light heavyweights, who is to say they wouldn't be beaten even worse by an all-time great heavyweight?

    no. a stoppage loss to a smaller fighter is by far worse than a decision loss to a bigger fighter like mccall's losses to bruno , tucker and douglas.
    some of mccall's losses were also too close to be considered as serious losses.
    Of course losing (and actually avenging the loss) against a top 25 all-time great heavyweight and a former heavyweight champion is much worse than losing to a china-chinned DaVarryl Williamson and the great 200 lb Mike "Bounty" Hunter. And there was no question about those losses either.

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  • frankenfrank
    replied
    Originally posted by Mr. Shen View Post
    Skill and speed are much more important to the power of a punch then a persons size.

    which of these guys do you think got ko'd in 3 rounds when they fought?

    i said : in average.

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  • Spartacus Sully
    replied
    Originally posted by frankenfrank View Post
    b/c they are bigger , roider and GH'der.
    in average bigger size is a bigger punch and a better chin. fact. otherwise there would not have been so many weight classes , which are almost all very much needed. and some are still missing. like the superheavyweight division for example.
    Skill and speed are much more important to the power of a punch then a persons size.

    which of these guys do you think got ko'd in 3 rounds when they fought?

    Last edited by Spartacus Sully; 02-24-2010, 05:37 AM.

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  • Schmerzen
    replied
    Originally posted by frankenfrank View Post
    liston < tua
    ali ~ tua
    louis < tua
    foreman ~ tua

    and p4p they all fall short of him


    8:38 > tuas left hook

    btw. tua was maybe the smaller man, but he outweighed all of them...
    Last edited by Schmerzen; 02-24-2010, 05:29 AM.

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  • frankenfrank
    replied
    liston < tua
    ali ~ tua
    louis < tua
    foreman ~ tua

    and p4p they all fall short of him

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  • Schmerzen
    replied
    liston > tua
    ali > tua
    louis > tua
    foreman > tua

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  • JAB5239
    replied
    Originally posted by frankenfrank View Post
    (also) wlad did struggle against thompson.


    had he been taller with the same proportions he has , he would have been even stronger. but it it not the lack of power that bothered his achievements to this point , it was his lack of reach.
    even the accessibility of his chin would have been tougher for ibeabuchi , lewis and byrd had he been taller.
    he is not as good as boxer as byrd because if he had the same technique as byrd he just would have been a bigger version of montell griffin.
    it is impossible for such a short fighter to be considered a great "boxer" , so he never tried to be.
    you can't expect him to fight like lennox lewis b/c his physique is the opposite.

    and outside of ruiz , haye , chambers , adamek (maybe baer could beat them , but they could beat him too , so no "like butter") , tua , mccall so i guess
    he too would not have held a belt today.


    so you made a joe louis out of mccall ?


    then so had louis , schmelling , patterson , ingemar johnson and archie moore.


    tua did not get discouraged against byrd whatsoever , and against lewis he just could not reach enough.
    this is why they are better , at least tua .

    a realistic possibility indeed but so is the possibility of haye destroying louis worse than marciano or schmelling did.

    not at all. he is a champion beater.
    could have easily been the champion had he fought ruiz / moorer / maskaev / haye / patterson / johnson / louis / or any pre 60's champion except , maybe , the behemoth sized ones at the time each one of them held the title.


    he did not find enough opportunities to land or even score because of lewis' huge range advantage. so being patient became a flaw ?


    said you.

    holyfield did not beat bowe , he just was able to fair reasonably well against him in one of their 3 encounters.
    there were not many quality tall jabbers above lewis' height , maybe it is because there were not too many fighters above lewis' height.

    I'm gonna let TheGreatA finish this, but you have proven yourself a much worse poster than some of the miscreants who try to spew their BS.

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  • frankenfrank
    replied
    Originally posted by TheGreatA View Post

    The fact is that Wladimir never struggled against men his own size. Chambers has. It could be a closer match-up if the two were the same size but Wladimir would still be favoured. Chambers has not yet shown the kind of work ethic and dedication that Wladimir has. If he can put those together, he could win even if he's out-sized.
    (also) wlad did struggle against thompson.

    Originally posted by TheGreatA View Post
    You can't just say that Tua would've destroyed everyone if he were taller. First of all the reason he has such explosive power is because he's very compact, stocky and has strong legs. His bobbing & weaving makes fighters miss due to his short height and his left hook comes from the opponent's blind side. The reason he hasn't beaten every fighter he has fought is because he lacks consistent work ethic and because he is simply not as good a boxer as the likes of Byrd.
    had he been taller with the same proportions he has , he would have been even stronger. but it it not the lack of power that bothered his achievements to this point , it was his lack of reach.
    even the accessibility of his chin would have been tougher for ibeabuchi , lewis and byrd had he been taller.
    he is not as good as boxer as byrd because if he had the same technique as byrd he just would have been a bigger version of montell griffin.
    it is impossible for such a short fighter to be considered a great "boxer" , so he never tried to be.
    you can't expect him to fight like lennox lewis b/c his physique is the opposite.
    Originally posted by TheGreatA View Post
    A focused Baer would go through today's top 10 like butter outside of the Klitschko brothers. Schmeling was better than the likes of Chagaev and Povetkin. More skilled, smarter and with a harder punch.
    and outside of ruiz , haye , chambers , adamek (maybe baer could beat them , but they could beat him too , so no "like butter") , tua , mccall so i guess
    he too would not have held a belt today.

    Originally posted by TheGreatA View Post
    You don't need a Tua punch or a McCall chin to beat them, that has been proven over and over. And Baer had a very solid chin and easily a bigger punch than McCall whose power comes mostly from his ability to catch people with punches they don't see coming. Baer had raw power and could club opponents down.
    so you made a joe louis out of mccall ?

    Originally posted by TheGreatA View Post
    Haye has a chin made of glass.
    then so had louis , schmelling , patterson , ingemar johnson and archie moore.

    Originally posted by TheGreatA View Post
    Something happened even when Byrd caught Tua, not to mention Lewis. He got discouraged. Tua is not some kind of a "terminator" even if his nickname is such, if he gets hit it'll make him think about his next move or whether he makes another move at all. No one wants to take unnecessary punishment. In fact neither McCall or Tua are like Baer who was willing to walk through punishment to land his own. They're much more defensive fighters.
    tua did not get discouraged against byrd whatsoever , and against lewis he just could not reach enough.
    this is why they are better , at least tua .
    Originally posted by TheGreatA View Post
    Are you kidding me? Louis would destroy Haye worse than Carl Thompson ever could.
    a realistic possibility indeed but so is the possibility of haye destroying louis worse than marciano or schmelling did.
    Originally posted by TheGreatA View Post
    Tua is very comparable to Louis's opposition. He was just a contender who never won a title.
    not at all. he is a champion beater.
    could have easily been the champion had he fought ruiz / moorer / maskaev / haye / patterson / johnson / louis / or any pre 60's champion except , maybe , the behemoth sized ones at the time each one of them held the title.

    Originally posted by TheGreatA View Post
    He didn't try very aggressively at all. The reason he only reached is because he didn't try to force Lewis to fight in close unlike Frazier, Dempsey, Marciano. He was content on staying at Lewis's range and being picked apart but not knocked out.
    he did not find enough opportunities to land or even score because of lewis' huge range advantage. so being patient became a flaw ?

    Originally posted by TheGreatA View Post
    Byrd was also able to trade punches and hurt Tua to the body.
    said you.
    Originally posted by TheGreatA View Post
    Holyfield did beat Bowe the one time he actually used his boxing and didn't brawl with Bowe. I've seen power punchers KO Wladimir far more often than I've seen tall jabbers beat Louis.
    holyfield did not beat bowe , he just was able to fair reasonably well against him in one of their 3 encounters.
    there were not many quality tall jabbers above lewis' height , maybe it is because there were not too many fighters above lewis' height.

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