Who Here Thinks That Liston Took A Dive?

[BritishBoxing92]

In Ali Vs Liston II Alot of people say that they thought that Liston took a dive in round 1.....i dont personally think this but what is your opinions?

[Clouseau]

I'm not so sure about the first fight. I thought he took a dive in the second fight, though. It just didn't look like a knockout punch but more like a glancing blow.

[#1Assassin]

he didnt take a dive, he just couldnt get up when ali standing over him.

the ref ****ed up, if a fighter leaves a neutral corner after knocking down his oponent the count STOPS. why should liston jump up? and how could he jump up? liston thought ali was crazy, and he sure was acting like it. for all he knew ali might take another swing at him as he was getting up.

"Ali knocked me down with a sharp punch. I was down but not hurt. Ali is waiting to hit me, the ref can’t control him. I have to put one knee and one glove on the canvas to get up. You know Ali is a nut. You can tell what a normal man is going to do but you can’t tell what a nut is going to do and Ali is a nut." -- Liston, two years later.

[tyger]

I don't. I remember a panel once on tv discussing it, it was the usual guys Dundee, Randolph Sugar, Pacheco etc. And they all agreed it wasn't when they discussed it. They confirmed what I believed to be. Liston got caught cold in the first round. It was a light punch, yes, but Liston never was one to take care of himself. Whether it was late night partying or drug abuse. Liston was his own worse enemy.

[tyger]

he didnt take a dive, he just couldnt get up when ali standing over him.

the ref ****ed up, if a fighter leaves a neutral corner after knocking down his oponent the count STOPS. why should liston jump up? and how could he jump up? liston thought ali was crazy, and he sure was acting like it. for all he knew ali might take another swing at him as he was getting up.

"Ali knocked me down with a sharp punch. I was down but not hurt. Ali is waiting to hit me, the ref can’t control him. I have to put one knee and one glove on the canvas to get up. You know Ali is a nut. You can tell what a normal man is going to do but you can’t tell what a nut is going to do and Ali is a nut." -- Liston, two years later.

Former champ Jersey Joe Walcott was that Referee. And he did mess up the whole thing a bit. I guess it's what they get for bringing in a celebrity referee.

[Sugarj]

For all Jersey Joe's poor handling of the contest......and Nat Fleicher's meddling from ringside, Sonny Liston had an amazing chin and that was no knockout punch! Sonny wasn't ever knocked out before and only as a much older man 5 years later was he truely stopped by Leotis Martin, by some terrific punches......check it out if its on You tube.

I dont think Sonny took a dive for gamblers, there was no reports of any big (first round KO for Ali) bets. Sonny was just a complex guy, maybe the black ******s had threatened him, perhaps there was a gorgeous ********** waiting. Perhaps he realised that Ali was just as friggin fast as a year before and that he didn't have the motivation to put up with all those combinations and movement. Maybe he was just disillusioned with the world......who knows?

Do I think Sonny could have got up straight away? Yes! When you watch a decent film of the fight (not a grainy You Tube example) Sonny appears to get to one knee and with a really embarrassed expression just flops over again...... this was no Berbick vs Tyson. He just didn't want one more minute of it.......and he was a dreadful actor.

I dont believe Ali thought he had knocked him out, Ali looked disgusted and told him to get up, that says it all for me! Ali didn't ask Foreman to get up did he? He knew he had hit him with decent punches......as for Liston 2......naa, not for me.

[Bundana]

For all Jersey Joe's poor handling of the contest......and Nat Fleicher's meddling from ringside, Sonny Liston had an amazing chin and that was no knockout punch! Sonny wasn't ever knocked out before and only as a much older man 5 years later was he truely stopped by Leotis Martin, by some terrific punches......check it out if its on You tube.

I dont think Sonny took a dive for gamblers, there was no reports of any big (first round KO for Ali) bets. Sonny was just a complex guy, maybe the black ******s had threatened him, perhaps there was a gorgeous ********** waiting. Perhaps he realised that Ali was just as friggin fast as a year before and that he didn't have the motivation to put up with all those combinations and movement. Maybe he was just disillusioned with the world......who knows?

Do I think Sonny could have got up straight away? Yes! When you watch a decent film of the fight (not a grainy You Tube example) Sonny appears to get to one knee and with a really embarrassed expression just flops over again...... this was no Berbick vs Tyson. He just didn't want one more minute of it.......and he was a dreadful actor.

I dont believe Ali thought he had knocked him out, Ali looked disgusted and told him to get up, that says it all for me! Ali didn't ask Foreman to get up did he? He knew he had hit him with decent punches......as for Liston 2......naa, not for me.

Exactly how I feel about it!

[HaglerSteelChin]

I don't. I remember a panel once on tv discussing it, it was the usual guys Dundee, Randolph Sugar, Pacheco etc. And they all agreed it wasn't when they discussed it. They confirmed what I believed to be. Liston got caught cold in the first round. It was a light punch, yes, but Liston never was one to take care of himself. Whether it was late night partying or drug abuse. Liston was his own worse enemy.

Although Sonny Liston was reported to have died of drugs the amount found in his body is unlikely to have killed a man his weight. Obviously, there has been alot of speculation surrounding his death and many TV shows have speculated that his refusal to throw the fight with Chuck Wepner may have been a cause for it? It was featured on the show Unsolved Mysteries many years ago.

Liston's own wife and close friends admit that Liston was a drinker but strongly deny he was on drugs. In fact, liston never liked to take even blood tests let alone have injected himself with *******.

[Jim Jeffries]

Yeah you can see Liston trying to get up, but Walcott can't get Ali to go to a neutral corner. When he finally does after about 15 seconds, Liston gets up unfazed, but then the timekeeper tells Walcott that the fight is over.

Pretty screwed up for a title fight.

[mhager91490]

I think he definetly took a dive in the second fight, it was an arm punch while Ali was moving bbackwards on his toes, and Ali never was a great puncher by any stretch of the imagination, especially in his early career.