Was Norton a 'real' champion?

[GJC]

Been done to death Silva, Sonny has his opinion and is sticking to it. Do think though though shoe horning it into a thread on Norton isn't on. I don't like one of my neighbours but I don't moan about him in a thread about Mike Tyson even though his name is Mike!

Guess the point here is that Spinks wouldn't fight Norton who I think few would argue would beat him. So if a title holder doesn't defend against his mandatory then he deserves to have his title off him unless we are to go back to the days when guys like Burley etc don't get a shot. Otherside is though that Don King can virtually choose the mandatorys for the WBC so it's complicated. On the same subject my neighbour has dumped a washing machine outside his house and.........

[StarshipTrooper]

Because he's a ****.

But hey, who wants to argue? Ain't worth it, right? Can't argue with a sick mind.

Too bloody right

Poet

[sonnyboyx2]

Norton was a `Paper-Champion`just like Lennox Lewis.. Norton was given the belt coz Muhammad Ali fought Leon Spinks in a rematch then retired.. Lewis picked the belt out of the garbage can in 1993 he lost it then was given it back by the WBC in 96 yet he fought no-one who was a linear title holder... Lewis finally won the title in 99 on a very dubious decision over an old Holyfield, of the 48 sports reporters sat at ringside 43 had Holyfield as the winner, Lewis then refused to fight the No1 contenders Ruiz, Byrd & Vitali so was stripped of every belt... Ken Norton fought the No1 contender Larry Holmes in his 1st defence and lost on a split-decision in one of the greatest heavyweight title fights in boxing history which is a shame as Norton was a very good fighter.

This has nothing to do with my thoughts on Lennox Lewis.. i addressed the topic on Ken Norton who was a `Paper Champion`i also added that Lewis was also a `Paper Champion`They are the only two men in Heavyweight history to be `Paper Champions`so i was justified in the writing of my thread... because no-one else had the insight to mention it, does not mean i am a ****.. but as always on here every fighter who ever laced a pair of gloves on has their pitfalls with the exception of LL who has legitimate excuses for his defeats, referee counted to quickly, he never trained correctly, he was not focused etc etc bull****`... the fact is that LL masscaraded as a Heavyweight champion even tho he had never beaten the man who beat the man, just as Ken Norton did

[sonnyboyx2]

Why does everything with you always come back to a slam on Lennox Lewis?

Poet

are you claiming LL was NOT a paper champion? or are you just angry at me for mentioning it.. either way it is relevent in this topic for it to be brought up

[GJC]

Lewis picked the belt out of the garbage can in 1993

Bowe threw it there as he refused to fight Lewis. What would you do say "fair enough keep it Rid****"?

he lost it then was given it back by the WBC in 96

Thought he won the vacant WBC championship versus McCall? Makes him as much a "paper" champion as Patterson was.

Lewis finally won the title in 99 on a very dubious decision over an old Holyfield, of the 48 sports reporters sat at ringside 43 had Holyfield as the winner

Notice you always ignore the "draw". He beat Holyfield 2nd time but I will agree it wasn't as convincing as the draw. What that doesn't mean though is that you can say he didn't fight as well as he did in a draw therefore he must have lost.

Lewis then refused to fight the No1 contenders Ruiz, Byrd

This has been covered so many times

& Vitali so was stripped of every belt...

Think you'll find he beat Vitali and retired with the WBC belt?

Ken Norton fought the No1 contender Larry Holmes in his 1st defence and lost on a split-decision in one of the greatest heavyweight title fights in boxing history which is a shame as Norton was a very good fighter.

Finally you say a little about Ken Norton and as usual when you get off Lewis I agree with you.
One difference between the two was Norton never won a title bout whereas Lewis won 15.

[GJC]

the fact is that LL masscaraded as a Heavyweight champion even tho he had never beaten the man who beat the man, just as Ken Norton did

Well he lost the WBC title to McCall and won it back by beating McCall albeit by complicated few steps removed route. He beat Holyfield and Tyson so if you want to call say Tyson "the man", then he beat hm. Admitidly it was a shadow of the real Tyson but you can level that against Holmes re Ali?

[StarshipTrooper]

This has nothing to do with my thoughts on Lennox Lewis.. i addressed the topic on Ken Norton who was a `Paper Champion`i also added that Lewis was also a `Paper Champion`They are the only two men in Heavyweight history to be `Paper Champions`so i was justified in the writing of my thread... because no-one else had the insight to mention it, does not mean i am a ****.. but as always on here every fighter who ever laced a pair of gloves on has their pitfalls with the exception of LL who has legitimate excuses for his defeats, referee counted to quickly, he never trained correctly, he was not focused etc etc bull****`... the fact is that LL masscaraded as a Heavyweight champion even tho he had never beaten the man who beat the man, just as Ken Norton did

Ah! The smell of irony!

Poet

[sonnyboyx2]

Bowe threw it there as he refused to fight Lewis. What would you do say "fair enough keep it Rid****"?

Thought he won the vacant WBC championship versus McCall? Makes him as much a "paper" champion as Patterson was.

Notice you always ignore the "draw". He beat Holyfield 2nd time but I will agree it wasn't as convincing as the draw. What that doesn't mean though is that you can say he didn't fight as well as he did in a draw therefore he must have lost.

This has been covered so many times

Think you'll find he beat Vitali and retired with the WBC belt?

Finally you say a little about Ken Norton and as usual when you get off Lewis I agree with you.
One difference between the two was Norton never won a title bout whereas Lewis won 15.

Bowe threw the WBC belt in the garbage can because he was going to be stripped of it if he never defended it against Lewis.. the reason he never defended it against Lewis was that Lewis was demanding a 50/50 purse split and options on Bowes next 3 fights should Lewis lose.. yet Bowe was undisputed champion, Lewis knew his demands would never be met by Bowe and was happy to pick the belt out of the bin and defend it against Frank Bruno, Phil Jackson & Tony"junkie"Tucker.

Lewis won the WBC vacant title from McCall who was only days out of a drug-rehab and in no condition mentaly or physically to be fighting for the title.

Lewis fought a draw with Holyfield and IMO was well beaten in his 2nd fight with Holyfield and also the opinion of most at ringside.

Lewis beat Vitali but only on a technicality and it was clear to all watching the Vitali was the better man on that night, Lewis told the world he would face Vitali in an immediate rematch yet he dragged out his title reign for 18 months and only days before he was due to be stripped of the belt announced his retirement.

Lets not forget that Lewis is the only Heavyweight champion in history to be `Stripped` of every version of the title for refusing to fight the No1 contenders.. WBA belt for refusing to fight John Ruiz, IBF belt for refusing to fight Chris Byrd & was to be stripped of WBC for refusing to rematch Vitali.... like it or not those are the facts.

GJC your not as clever as i thought if you think Lewis won 15 title fights as champion... The champion is always the man who beat the man... Tyson beat Spinks, Douglas beat Tyson, Holyfield beat Douglas, Bowe beat Holyfield, Holyfield beat Bowe, Moorer beat Holyfield, Foreman beat Moorer, Briggs beat Foreman (Robbery). Lewis beat Briggs.

Through out Lewis paper champion years we had a Undisputed Heavyweight Champion.. Lewis was only fighting Class C fighters and his PPV numbers was dismal, no-one except the Canadians & British thought he had any chance against the top fighters from the USA and Lewis always refused to fight those top fighters, he continued that trend unto he finally retired with the exception of fighting an old Holyfield to a draw which i thought he won and a points victory over Holyfield which i thought he lost.

The Canadians & British do not want to hear anything that is negative about Lewis and should anyone like me put it into words then i am always `jumped on`and called a hater or a ****.. yet those who call me can write what ever they want about Mike Tyson or Rid**** Bowe without fear of ever being called for doing it... the bottom line is, Lennox Lewis is/was a Canadian/British thing.. and if those fans want to claim him to be on a par with Muhammad Ali like many of them claim on these forums then they are entitled to their opinions, while the vast majority of knowledgable boxing fans laugh at their claim.

P.S. Floyd Patterson fought and won the undisputed Heavyweight Title that was vacant due to the retirement of Rocky Marciano.. Floyd was rated No1 and fought No2 contender Archie Moore... There was no other fighter out there in the background who was the legitimate undisputed champion, whereas in the case of Lennox Lewis there was

[sonnyboyx2]

Well he lost the WBC title to McCall and won it back by beating McCall albeit by complicated few steps removed route. He beat Holyfield and Tyson so if you want to call say Tyson "the man", then he beat hm. Admitidly it was a shadow of the real Tyson but you can level that against Holmes re Ali?

GJC.. surely you are having a laugh, How was Tyson the `man`in 2002?... it was 6yrs since he had been champion.

McCall had lost his title to Bruno with Bruno losing it to Tyson who then lost it to Holyfield.. but we are talking here about a single belt (WBC) George Foreman was the champion being `The Man who beat The Man`

you say,`when i get off Lewis you agree with me`well its obvious that my opinions of Lewis and your opinions of Lewis are totally different, so we will both stick to our opinions and move on.. you being respected and me being a ****!

yet i am far from being the only one with the opinions i have of Lewis... like ive said earlier Lewis is a Canadian/British thing.

[Biffen]

Patterson became a real champion by beating Ingmar Johansson, so he should not be counted as a "paper" champion.