So What do you lot think of Mike Tyson

[ROSS CALIFORNIA]

I never bought into the theory that intimidation won his fights, or how Atlis says if you stood up to the bully the bully would back off or the bully would then become intimidated. Guys didn't stand up to Tyson for one reason only, he would knock them out! Thats all there is to it. That's why so many chose to run and hold because they knew they couldn't take his punches, we have brains for a reason you know. lol Look at Berbick, was Berbick scared? Did he run and hold? He is the perfect example of a fighter that actually stood up to Tyson but look what happened in that fight. Unfortunately Tyson destroyed him self. I believe his problems were never completely under control but once he decided to go with Don King and get rid of Rooney, he then was allowed to do what he wanted and we all know he didn't know how to make the right choices. You can say Tyson didn't have the character of a champion, to make it in the long run. But while he was under control with the right guys, he was amazing. I still can't see how some believe Tyson was so focused and at his peak against Douglas. You could tell he was out of shape, or at least not in the top shape he normally came in. And Tyson after prison was a joke. He couldn't even hit Mathis Jr. Bruno was just to slow and awkward for him, and Seldon never could take great punch anyway. Holyfield (even though never wouldn't have beaten a prime Tyson) was still good enough impose his will and skills on that Tyson. Just look at that Tyson, where was the fire? Where was the mental toughness he always had? He acted like a ***** in that fight and just like the Douglass fight, he didn't do anything after a few rounds. Tyson wasn't like Foreman, he didn't burn himself out after 4 or 5 rounds. Watch his earlier fights and see how well he did after 5 rounds. He did have some boring fights though that went the distance, but its hard to knock out or hit a guy thats only trying not to get hit. Look at the Bonecrusher fight.

As a champion he is not very high on the list. But if you want to compare how he would have done against the greats, I only give Ali and Holmes a chance of beating him. Ali had some nice things to say about that Tyson.

[StarshipTrooper]

Better than both Frazier and Marciano. If you had those three to pick from and had to put them up against the best HW Champions and top fighters/contenders throughout history and up to now...I would take a peak Tyson over them.

Interestingly enough I have all three ranked in a pack at #s 9,10, and 11 with little to choose between them.

Poet

[sleazyfellow]

Of course everybody likes Mike here, as I do. The only thing missing I think is a comeback KO, it Tyson would of shown heart and KO'd either Buster or Holyfield after getting beat on like he did, he would be higher on the ATG HW list.

[Benny Leonard]

I never bought into the theory that intimidation won his fights, or how Atlis says if you stood up to the bully the bully would back off or the bully would then become intimidated. Guys didn't stand up to Tyson for one reason only, he would knock them out! Thats all there is to it. That's why so many chose to run and hold because they knew they couldn't take his punches, we have brains for a reason you know. lol Look at Berbick, was Berbick scared? Did he run and hold? He is the perfect example of a fighter that actually stood up to Tyson but look what happened in that fight.................................

I cut your post to save some room so don't take offense.


The whole bully thing doesn't always work. Foreman was seen as a bully and Frazier wasn't...yet it was Foreman that kicked the **** out of Frazier despite Frazier having no fear of Foreman...and actually, Foreman was the one that was scared.

I've always said Tyson had to do what he had to do because of his size:
5'11, 215+ going up against the new look Super-HWs or the start of it.
Tyson was seen as Godzilla yet it was Godzilla that was looking up because he was smaller. This is why Tyson always had to be in tip-top shape and stay active because the moment he slipped, he was going to be vulnerable for the taking.
Being actve and being in great shape helped him a lot...it was key. Fighting Taller and Heavier opponents that could also be stronger than you is hard to deal with.
It's also why I think he may have started out so fast to see if he could get the KO early as well as having some insurance by taxing the body hard just in case that opponent isn't KO'd early. At least if the fighter is still standing, his legs and "will" can be cracked so that the Taller/Heavier Man no longer has the advantage through the rest of the fight.


I put a nice quote by Tyson in my sig: "I don't try to intimidate anybody before a fight," Tyson said. "That's nonsense. I intimidate people by hitting them." ~Tyson


There is a video with Steve Lott talking about Tyson's style and how his style basically made the opponents confused and then end up folding.
So the opponent would throw a punch, Tyson would make them miss, counter with his own punch or barrage of punches and land hard....the opponent would try again, miss, and Tyson would strike again and land hard...and this would go on not much longer and the opponent would basically be confused and close up shop.

It's not exact so maybe I'll go search for the video later if it is still on youtube. It's in one of the documentaries.


I also like to throw in a little quote from Floyd Patterson which sums up why Tyson fell off: "Remember what got you there" ~Floyd Patterson.
That's Patterson's response after being asked to give advise to Tyson after Tyson's loss to Douglas.

I also read in an S.I. article that said Patterson offered to train Tyson for free but there was no response. Not sure Tyson ever heard about it or maybe King didn't want any part of it. Don't know...but it would have been interesting for them to Team up since Patterson knew the style, knew Cus well, was a person of character that you can trust, etc.

[TheCheetah]

Iron Mike Tyson is a LEGEND

[JAB5239]

[QUOTE]

I never bought into the theory that intimidation won his fights, or how Atlis says if you stood up to the bully the bully would back off or the bully would then become intimidated. Guys didn't stand up to Tyson for one reason only, he would knock them out! Thats all there is to it.

I don't believe this for a second. Through out the history of this sport there were guys who were skilled and intimidating only to have another fighter come along and stand up to them. WHEN...this happened to Mike his success rate plummeted. This is undeniable.

That's why so many chose to run and hold because they knew they couldn't take his punches, we have brains for a reason you know. lol Look at Berbick, was Berbick scared? Did he run and hold? He is the perfect example of a fighter that actually stood up to Tyson but look what happened in that fight.

Im sorry my friend, but not fighting a smart fight and standing up to someone are two different things. Berbick was never exactly an all time great either.

Unfortunately Tyson destroyed him self. I believe his problems were never completely under control but once he decided to go with Don King and get rid of Rooney, he then was allowed to do what he wanted and we all know he didn't know how to make the right choices. You can say Tyson didn't have the character of a champion, to make it in the long run. But while he was under control with the right guys, he was amazing. I still can't see how some believe Tyson was so focused and at his peak against Douglas. You could tell he was out of shape, or at least not in the top shape he normally came in.

Tyson was what, 23 at the time he lost to Douglas? The very best find a way to fight through adversity, win or lose. His heart and chin were great in that fight, but the character he showed by not being able to adjust to that beating was the same character displayed in Holy 1 and 2, as well as the Lewis fight. When Mike knew he couldn't win he was done . I dare anybody to give me an example otherwise.

And Tyson after prison was a joke. He couldn't even hit Mathis Jr. Bruno was just to slow and awkward for him, and Seldon never could take great punch anyway. Holyfield (even though never wouldn't have beaten a prime Tyson) was still good enough impose his will and skills on that Tyson. Just look at that Tyson, where was the fire? Where was the mental toughness he always had? He acted like a ***** in that fight and just like the Douglass fight, he didn't do anything after a few rounds.

Im trying to think of the mental toughness you're talking about. Tyson ALWAYS came out the same way. It was when his opponent didn't crumble in 3 that he started doubting himself.

Tyson wasn't like Foreman, he didn't burn himself out after 4 or 5 rounds. Watch his earlier fights and see how well he did after 5 rounds. He did have some boring fights though that went the distance, but its hard to knock out or hit a guy thats only trying not to get hit. Look at the Bonecrusher fight.

You're right, Tyson wasn't gassed like young Foreman use to do. But his mentality noticeably changed. You talk about the Bonecrusher Smith fight, but I remember Mike doing a lot of holding himself in the latter rounds. Am I wrong?

As a champion he is not very high on the list. But if you want to compare how he would have done against the greats, I only give Ali and Holmes a chance of beating him. Ali had some nice things to say about that Tyson.

Mike makes my top ten, but comparing how he would have done against other champions is ridiculous. We know how Mike responded to adversity, we know how they responded to adversity. Anything else is fantasy guesswork.

[Grimmer]

As I've posted before:

People seems to forget than he was undisputed heavyweight champion of the world aged just 21.

I find that extraordinary. Here was this kid knocking out full fledged heavyweight champions, in such a brutal style....and he was 21. I'm 21, I could never imagine myself standing up to Wlad or Vitali and even lasting 15 seconds.

Amazing, Mike Tyson was simply unique. You can criticise his boxing ability....but for me, he has a place in boxing history as high as Ali, Robinson, Louis simply because of what he achieved, in such style and at such a young age. He was simply untouchable in his early years.

[JAB5239]

As I've posted before:

What he did was fantastic. But he showed no longevity or perseverance. Ali and Louis were nearly the same age and dominated for years. Compared to them Mike was a shooting star who's flame burnt out to quickly to be mentioned amongst them. Jmo.

[Sugarj]

I'm a big Mike Tyson fan, even when well past prime I always looked more forward to his fights than anyone elses.

In his peak he was terrific, easily the best combination of speed and power in heavyweight history, only a few had faster hands (Ali, Patterson) and those that may arguably have punched harder (Foreman, Shavers) didn't have his blinding speed.

For all his personal problems and stylistic flaws I think that the peak Tyson would acquit himself well against the best heavyweights in history. I wouldn't be overly confident in picking anyone to convincingly beat him even though I would favour Ali, Holmes and possibly Foreman to get the 'W'.

Great fighter, makes my all time heavyweight top ten.

[ROSS CALIFORNIA]

[QUOTE=JAB5239;6778742]

I don't believe this for a second. Through out the history of this sport there were guys who were skilled and intimidating only to have another fighter come along and stand up to them. WHEN...this happened to Mike his success rate plummeted. This is undeniable.



Im sorry my friend, but not fighting a smart fight and standing up to someone are two different things. Berbick was never exactly an all time great either.


Tyson was what, 23 at the time he lost to Douglas? The very best find a way to fight through adversity, win or lose. His heart and chin were great in that fight, but the character he showed by not being able to adjust to that beating was the same character displayed in Holy 1 and 2, as well as the Lewis fight. When Mike knew he couldn't win he was done . I dare anybody to give me an example otherwise.



Im trying to think of the mental toughness you're talking about. Tyson ALWAYS came out the same way. It was when his opponent didn't crumble in 3 that he started doubting himself.



You're right, Tyson wasn't gassed like young Foreman use to do. But his mentality noticeably changed. You talk about the Bonecrusher Smith fight, but I remember Mike doing a lot of holding himself in the latter rounds. Am I wrong?



Mike makes my top ten, but comparing how he would have done against other champions is ridiculous. We know how Mike responded to adversity, we know how they responded to adversity. Anything else is fantasy guesswork.

I guess you would have had to of fallowed his career like I did to know what happened to him. It was more than just a coincidence that he began losing under a new team. So using Douglas as an example is something I have to disagree with. The mental toughness was there before but its hard to prove that. One example we can go by is when Toney Tucker rocked him in the first round. Tyson kept coming just as fast as before, it didn't slow his attack at all. When Holyfield hit him in the first round, who wasn't a big puncher to begin with and didn't rock Tyson like Tucker did, he reacted a lot different. Using the Douglas and Holyfield fights as examples of how he was is just as bad as using the Lewis and Danny Williams fight to gage how good he was. None of those examples were a focused prime Tyson, and thats all there is to it.