Pick a fighter, make an argument

[Rockin']

James Toney, one of the greatest accelerations of offensive, defensive skill after winning the title.

He just got better after winning that belt.

I fully understand the complaints on his first couple of defenses. I can vouch for the hours that he spent on the stair master just sweatin' out buckets.

After his easy defense against Barkley though, he just took off.

James would amaze me watching him sparring and his fights on tv.

An ATG in my eyes..............Rockin'

[OldTerry]

James Toney, one of the greatest accelerations of offensive, defensive skill after winning the title.

He just got better after winning that belt.

I fully understand the complaints on his first couple of defenses. I can vouch for the hours that he spent on the stair master just sweatin' out buckets.

After his easy defense against Barkley though, he just took off.

James would amaze me watching him sparring and his fights on tv.

An ATG in my eyes..............Rockin'

I know I am supposed to leave this pick to Smiley but I'd say Sugar Ray Robinson. Robinson turned professional in 1940 at the age of 19 and by 1951 had a professional record of 128–1–2 with 84 knockouts, having. lost his 41st fight to Jake LaMotta, From 1943 to 1951 Robinson went on a 91-fight unbeaten streak including three wins against LaMotta,

Most boxing pundits also rate Robinson as not only the best welterweight ever but also the best middleweight.

[JAB5239]

- -Well, Jimmy did have near a dozen draws and a few NC or NDs here and there, but Yeah, TheGreatA remembers one of the earliest Greats in boxing...

39 of Barry's fights were against debuting fighters. 9 more were against fighters with 1 win or less. I would argue Barry was hardly great at all. I will admit 58-0 is still impressive. That's a lot of fights, even against no hopers.

[Marchegiano]

39 of Barry's fights were against debuting fighters. 9 more were against fighters with 1 win or less. I would argue Barry was hardly great at all. I will admit 58-0 is still impressive. That's a lot of fights, even against no hopers.

Probably more of a case of an unworked or poorly worked record to be honest. One should take the term debut with a grain of salt when looking at early records. Peter Maher's record used to have quite a lot more debuts before Matt Dunnellon wrote his book. I made the mistake of thinking Pete only KO'd a bunch of debuts and then Matt did proper research on the fella and his record became a lot more impressive along with filling out quite a bit of other famous fighters like Fitzsimmons. I used to tell folks Fitzs has the all time record for KO'ing men out of the sport, but, most of them were debuts. Turns out Fitzs fought less debuts than I thought too.

So, I wouldn't boldly state Barry or some such is an ATG without doing the research into those debutantes, but I wouldn't give him the brush off without doing the research either. It could be those "debuts" are debuts because no one has searched the papers for other fights our records for those fellas and the only info we have on them is they fought Berry. As was the case with Fitzs and Peter.

[Quercusalba]

Willie Pep

The man won 62 fights in a row and then went another 73(?) fights without a loss. He had two hall of fame careers at that point and would go on to fight over 100 more times. Legendary stuff!

[JAB5239]

Probably more of a case of an unworked or poorly worked record to be honest. One should take the term debut with a grain of salt when looking at early records. Peter Maher's record used to have quite a lot more debuts before Matt Dunnellon wrote his book. I made the mistake of thinking Pete only KO'd a bunch of debuts and then Matt did proper research on the fella and his record became a lot more impressive along with filling out quite a bit of other famous fighters like Fitzsimmons. I used to tell folks Fitzs has the all time record for KO'ing men out of the sport, but, most of them were debuts. Turns out Fitzs fought less debuts than I thought too.

So, I wouldn't boldly state Barry or some such is an ATG without doing the research into those debutantes, but I wouldn't give him the brush off without doing the research either. It could be those "debuts" are debuts because no one has searched the papers for other fights our records for those fellas and the only info we have on them is they fought Berry. As was the case with Fitzs and Peter.

A very fair point for sure.

[GhostofDempsey]

Arguments can be made in favor of Langford, Pep, Charles, Moore, Duran, Pacquiao, and several others on resume alone. Each beating prime elites at their best and challenging themselves to the fullest. Arguments could be made for Ike Williams too.

[JAB5239]

Arguments can be made in favor of Langford, Pep, Charles, Moore, Duran, Pacquiao, and several others on resume alone. Each beating prime elites at their best and challenging themselves to the fullest. Arguments could be made for Ike Williams too.

Ike gets left out of these conversations a lot more than he should. Great fighter with an excellent resume.