Leonard vs McCallum at 154

[flyest1]

Who do you have in this great matchup between one of the greatest and one of the most underated fighters ever.

[blacklodge]

I'm not a true believer in McCallum as many others are, and I've never been a fan of Leonard. I think Leonard, the truest boxer-puncher I've ever seen, picks his spots, possibly scores a knockdown, wins a clear but competative UD. McCallum was a great inside fighter, but didn't have the wormy, mauling style to disrupt Leonard's great inside skills (why Hagler didn't do the job on the inside either), and Leonard's handspeed would make the difference.

[#1Assassin]

ray had troubles outboxing noticably taller men with great jabs. he couldnt outbox hearns to save his life and its well known mccallum usually got the better of his sparring sessions with the hitman at the kronk. also mccallum could take much more punishment and was more complete. mccalum could certainly hang with ray as far as ring IQ, jabbing, angles and counterpunching goes. boxing basicly. and with his size and excellent bodypunching he would be a bit too much imo, maybe be able to break leonard down a bit and perhaps even stop him in the later rounds.

[wpink1]

ray had troubles outboxing noticably taller men with great jabs. he couldnt outbox hearns to save his life and its well known mccallum usually got the better of his sparring sessions with the hitman at the kronk. also mccallum could take much more punishment and was more complete. mccalum could certainly hang with ray as far as ring IQ, jabbing, angles and counterpunching goes. boxing basicly. and with his size and excellent bodypunching he would be a bit too much imo, maybe be able to break leonard down a bit and perhaps even stop him in the later rounds.

True Ray had issues with Hearns. That was it. Hearns is not McCallum. Just because they have sparring sessions that mcCallum did well in means nothing about Ray. The issue with hearns that Leoanrds camp stated Befroe the 1st fight, is not so much hearns outboxing him, which is totally plausible as hearns was 6'2 78 inch reac and quick hands great jab. It is that with HEARNS you can not be caught on the end of his right hand, you do not have the problem with McCallum. Thus everything changes. With hearns, leonard did had to move out of reach, thus keeping him out of hearns right hand, but also since he had shorter reach, he was out side of his reach too. You notice that in the 1st fight, when ray chose to engage, he got the best of hearns, rounds 3, 6.7.8,13, 14. Rounds in which he was on the outside either trying to stalk or chase hearns (later rounds) or simply avoiding get hit with a big right (early rounds) and as they plan was to zap some of his legs. Ray's plan worked, What many many people do not know, is that in the sports illustrated labled the show down. Dundee almost to the round spelled out exactly how the fight would go. Go research for yourselves, I have the edition. 9/10/81 version of sports illustrated labled the showdown.... they verdict was leoanrd to win by 14th round stoppage. Seriously go get it. They said most people think Ray would outbox hearns, but most did not know hearns was a master boxer with out ko power in the amateurs, so he was perfectly capable of boxing.

McCallum while he is a very good boxer, very intelligent, great body puncher, simply would get embarrased. Prime Ray, boxing wise was a beast. He was a supreme boxer puncher. McCallum could not hurt Ray, and you know what happened when Ray does not feel you can hurt him...mayweather sr, kalule, Geraldo,,,These are all fighters that simply could not hurt him, and they were either good fighters, with speed or bigger. Ray simply overwhelmed them, and stopped 2 of them, and the 3rd clealry won the decsion. ]

Ray's speed jaw, style, etc would have been to much for him..

[Dynamite Kid]

I think Leonard would of won but i could not disagree more that he would get embarrassed, no one ever! embarrassed McCallum, not close to his prime anyway, although i think Ray would win it would be a competitive fight with Leonard probably winning a clear decision.

Leonard would probably outquick McCallum imo, however it would still be close and competitive, what McCallum did not have in speed he made up for with a good jab and terrific timing, Leonard was also known to want to **** it out at times so i think the fight would be closer than anticipated.

McCallum is so smart & his timing is so good that even when he is being outquicked a little(Curry) he is smart enough to work the opponent, he feinted to Curry's body, Curry brought the feint and he was on his back next thing he knew, it was a perfect set up shot.

Leonard wins but not easy, McCallum's fights with Toney were as close as it gets, that was a prime Toney who was pretty quick himself at 160, which gets overlooked imo.

[sonnyboyx2]

I think Leonard would of won but i could not disagree more that he would get embarrassed, no one ever! embarrassed McCallum, not close to his prime anyway, although i think Ray would win it would be a competitive fight with Leonard probably winning a clear decision.

Leonard would probably outquick McCallum imo, however it would still be close and competitive, what McCallum did not have in speed he made up for with a good jab and terrific timing, Leonard was also known to want to **** it out at times so i think the fight would be closer than anticipated.

McCallum is so smart & his timing is so good that even when he is being outquicked a little(Curry) he is smart enough to work the opponent, he feinted to Curry's body, Curry brought the feint and he was on his back next thing he knew, it was a perfect set up shot.

Leonard wins but not easy, McCallum's fights with Toney were as close as it gets, that was a prime Toney who was pretty quick himself at 160, which gets overlooked imo.

i go along with your assessment here Kid... and what a great fight this would have been, IMO McCallum never really reached his full potential until later in his career and he had problems with many of his opponents, Graham, Kalambay, Toney and i think Leonard is a touch better all round.. but what a great fight it would have been, we can only summize how it would have unfolded

just add a little tit-bit here - McCallum said Roy Jones was the best he had ever been in with when interviewed after their fight.

[mickey malone]

Who do you have in this great matchup between one of the greatest and one of the most underated fighters ever.

In any other era this fight would have been compulsory..
But I think it's now common knowledge that as McCallum was a consumate professional, and always in top shape, chicken Ray would have insisted on special circumstances in order to fight him.. I can only suggest, McCallum didn't like the idea of giving his belts away, so Leonard went chasing after Lalonde instead..

154 would have been McCallums fight, and no one knew that better than Ray..

[Princemanspopa]

Malone,shut the **** up,you silly ****.You were fed some story from a ******ed Duran apologist and now you think you know everything.Go and watch a Sonny Liston fight that doesn't feature Muhammad Ali before you ever make another post.I assumed that I had already run out all the old,bitter boxing bully boy posters,who like to lure morons like you into their way of thinking,but apparently I was wrong,tie me kangaroo down sport is still around it and has exposed himself as one of these lonely old men.

[mickey malone]

Malone,shut the **** up,you silly ****.You were fed some story from a ******ed Duran apologist and now you think you know everything.Go and watch a Sonny Liston fight that doesn't feature Muhammad Ali before you ever make another post.I assumed that I had already run out all the old,bitter boxing bully boy posters,who like to lure morons like you into their way of thinking,but apparently I was wrong,tie me kangaroo down sport is still around it and has exposed himself as one of these lonely old men.

And why would I take the advice of an intellectualy challenged pants pisser, like yourself?

[Joey Giardello]

ray had troubles outboxing noticably taller men with great jabs. he couldnt outbox hearns to save his life and its well known mccallum usually got the better of his sparring sessions with the hitman at the kronk. also mccallum could take much more punishment and was more complete. mccalum could certainly hang with ray as far as ring IQ, jabbing, angles and counterpunching goes. boxing basicly. and with his size and excellent bodypunching he would be a bit too much imo, maybe be able to break leonard down a bit and perhaps even stop him in the later rounds.

Kalambay outboxed a prime mccallum first time round, a past prime donald curry was outboxing him until geting caught, herol graham went to the wire with mccallum a fight that could of gone either way, james toney outboxed a just past his best mccallum, so a prime learnad beats mike he has to many tools for mccallum and is the over all better fighter. Also i have always heard that the sparring between mike and tommy was more or less 50/50, manny steward said some of the best sparring he has ever seen. A prime ray Learnard was a different type of animal