The Greatness of Joe Frazier and an example of when the lineal was needed and came to the rescue of boxing

[billeau2]

Your wind analogy is as silly as the rest of your argument. Wind exists, it can be felt, measured, contained, diverted, used to propel ships and generate electricity, etc, etc.
Lineal titles have no objective or legal existence. They are nothing but ideas planted in the minds of naive, suggestible fans, to part them from their money.

You offer no arguments just repeat the same false logic... Lol.

[billeau2]

I don't see any way lineal can be considered more than an idea if not attached to something more than an idea.

It's as real as like love, hope, hate, and depression are real. and just a definable.

Look as those who "get it" come together with competing definitions and I do not mean the debates.


I have to say, I thought I got the angle but clearly I don't.


It seem all proponents of lineal really hate a rigid definition because there is no rigid definition that can be placed across all generally accepted lineages. and there is no consistency across lineage because it is just an idea like love and if all us who ever experienced love defined it we'd all have variations, none of which would match every situation labeled love or even loving.



TBH my biggest issue with lineal isn't that it struggles beyond any clarification of the vaguest definitions but rather despite the stated goal of this thread I can not for the life of me see how lineal is important to anything.


It is so unimportant in fact its existence is debatable.


Is love important to human life? Debatable isn't it? One can very much be platonic about everything and be content, others not so much.






Lineal is a cult.

Just totally untrue. Definitions, background and examples have all been offered. Not all concepts that are implicit are necessarily abstract.

[billeau2]

OK! What are we in disagreement about?

He wants people to believe the lineal does not exist... Lol. He feels we are going in circles by continuing to destroy that notion.

[billeau2]

I won't argue with you definition, there is some legitimacy there, but I think it very unlikely that advocates of the lineal title like us can be grouped as "naive."

I would suggest that we are less likely to be 'parted from our money' than most.

We are a discerning customer.

See? despite a mountain of proof, examples and historical precedent Kafkod finds it trivial to argue the point because he is not convinced.

[billeau2]

Like you said at the start of this comment, the lineal title is nothing but an idea. It exists only in the minds of whomever may be thinking about it at any given moment.

Like all ideas, it has utility. It can be utilised by ratings boards like TBRB, to occupy energetic minds and give well meaning folk a reason to pat themselves on the back for "contributing" to the sport they love.

It can be utilised by fanboys to big up their heroes.

And of course, it can be utilised as a powerful marketing tool by promoters, networks, etc.

And because it can be utilized, plagorized that means it does not exist? How silly.

[JAB5239]

Your wind analogy is as silly as the rest of your argument. Wind exists, it can be felt, measured, contained, diverted, used to propel ships and generate electricity, etc, etc.
Lineal titles have no objective or legal existence. They are nothing but ideas planted in the minds of naive, suggestible fans, to part them from their money.

So you're saying that just putting a belt around someone's waist and calling them champion makes it so. Bull****. You're the only naive poster here if you think that. Like the wind lineal doesn't need a "legal" existence. It just is. If Usyk dropped all his cartoon belts right now and kept fighting, would he still not be the champion? Your lack of common sense astounds me right now.

[JAB5239]

I do actually try to give space between posts so i don't see myself too much but this inspires a question:

Do you believe there must always be a lineal?


As in, if I did a list that just hit those names that are beyond reproach. I mean Lewis to Usyk and none between hit that level. Is it acceptable to say between lewis and usyk is only vacancy or must there always be a lineal?



If you dudes went over that already it's fair to tell me to reread. The ****er has gotten dense so I wouldn't doubt it.

There can be spaces between lineal champions. Such was the case when Lewis retired. Wlad didn't become lineal until the Chagaev fight and obviously we have the resources to track what has happened since. Going back a bit to Tyson, he may have been the best fighter in the division but he want the lineal champion until he beat Spinks. Joe Louis was probably the best fighter in the division before he beat Braddock. But because hadn't beaten him yet could not be the lineal champ. Don't know if that makes sense or not. I'll try to respond more later. Have to get ready for work right now.

[QueensburyRules]

I notice you are ignoring the point I made in the comment you quoted.

Mike Tyson didn't need to beat Michael Spinks to be recognised by millions of sports fans worldwide as The Heavyweight Champion of the World. Lineal championship status is just like the alphabet titles, in that it is only ever as important and respected as the name of the guy who has it.

- - Lineal 2 dimensional harnessed sled dogs need a lot of help by big shot media names to cut up their steak and tuck in their napkins.

BTW, Alaskan Huskeys consistently out perform Siberia Huskies in the classic Iditarod Gruelathon...yeah!!!

[kafkod]

So you're saying that just putting a belt around someone's waist and calling them champion makes it so. Bull****. You're the only naive poster here if you think that. Like the wind lineal doesn't need a "legal" existence. It just is. If Usyk dropped all his cartoon belts right now and kept fighting, would he still not be the champion? Your lack of common sense astounds me right now.

"So you're saying that just putting a belt around someone's waist and calling them champion makes it so"

Duh ..... you mean like putting a gold medal around someone's neck makes them an Olympic champion?

Or like presenting a football team with a Super Bowl trophy makes them the Super Bowl champions?

Duh .. yeah, I think that's how it works, matel.

"If Usyk dropped all his cartoon belts right now and kept fighting, would he still not be the champion?"

No, Usyk wouldn't be champion if he dropped all his belts. That's not how it works. And for the record, Usyk himself has said that the imaginary lineal title means nothing to him and described it as, "Tyson Fury's bull****"

[kafkod]

There can be spaces between lineal champions. Such was the case when Lewis retired. Wlad didn't become lineal until the Chagaev fight and obviously we have the resources to track what has happened since. Going back a bit to Tyson, he may have been the best fighter in the division but he want the lineal champion until he beat Spinks. Joe Louis was probably the best fighter in the division before he beat Braddock. But because hadn't beaten him yet could not be the lineal champ. Don't know if that makes sense or not. I'll try to respond more later. Have to get ready for work right now.

Who says Wlad became lineal champion by beating Chagaev?

According to TBRB, who are the anonymous, faceless crew most often cited as self appointed custodians of the mythical lineal title, Wlad didn't become lineal champ till he beat Povetkin.